Schutzhund with Cricket?

Discussion in 'Agility and Dog Sports' started by skittledoo, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. skittledoo

    skittledoo Crazy naked dog lady

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    Does it sound crazy that I would really like to try Schutzhund with Cricket just to see how she does? When I think of Schutzhund, I always think of protection type breeds since that's what seems to be most common. One of my coworkers tried schutzhund with her two dogs when she was at a school in Texas and out of her GSD and her little Aussie, her Aussie actually did the best. She mentioned I should try Cricket out just to see how she does and I think it might be fun to give it a shot.

    What kind of things do you look for in a dog you might try schutzhund with? I know Cricket is super stable. She does great in public settings and more often than not she only reacts (growl/bark) to people that are truly being sketchy. She does love tug and surprisingly is pretty strong for a dog her size.

    One of my neighbors owns a Belgian malinois (who Cricket absolutely adores) and even he said he'd be interested to see how Cricket does. He also mentioned something about French Ring which I know absolutely nothing about.

    So... How do you get involved with trying out schutzhund? How do you find a good trainer?

    If Cricket doesn't do well or even enjoy schutzhund then of course we wouldnt continue. I just want to try her in a bunch of things to see where her niche is.
     
  2. SizzleDog

    SizzleDog Lord Cynical

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    Nope, not crazy at all. :) You just have to find the right club to help you - some clubs are more welcoming that others, when it comes to "nontraditional" breeds. I'm sure our more seasoned Schutzhund* people will chime in!

    (PS - what the heck are we supposed to call it now, now that it's not Schh? Argh, frustrating!)
     
  3. chowNcharge

    chowNcharge New Member

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    i wanted to try with one of my shelties before. i couldnt find a club that would let me!
     
  4. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    First off, sorry! I saw your FB post and kept thinking I'll respond when I get to a computer because I truly suck on my phone but now that I see this and I'm on my computer I'll just respond here.

    Nope, but there are a few things to consider. While Schutzhund (IPO, DVG) is a fabulously fun sport it is very extensive and take a lot of training. If you have any desires to compete (why not?) then you'll need to make a pretty strong commitment, of course decide if you like it first though!

    My club trains wednesday night from 7-10 pm (a lot of talking gets done too, which sucks because I work Thursday at 6 am) and Saturday at 10 am til we're done and Sunday at 6 am for tracking then usually 8-9am til we're done. We *should* be tracking more than once a week but we're limited on land for tracking here and the patch we track on is only open on weekend (business park).




    An Aussie might be actually pretty good at the sport, they're tenacious assholes, but I worry about their bending to the handlers will. The dog needs a fair amount of "what next?" in their mentality and when you get a dog that is too head strong and says "screw you, hooman, I got this" it can become a battle not worth taking, imo. (This can go for any heavy control sport)



    I want a dog with a nice food and toy drive. I want a biddable dog that is excited to be with you and be around people. I want a dog that enjoys tug and has a nice and high prey drive, all of our dogs, most clubs are started in a teasing manner for bite work that sparks prey drive. I want a dog strong enough to carry a dumbbell over an A frame and a meter jump. This could pose an issue for Cricket but it may not depending on her size and determination. I used to train with a jack russell that was trained in PSA (another protection sport, light on obedience) because he was a flunky from Sch (their words) and supposedly where he couldn't keep up was the OB portion where the dog must retrieve a wooden dumbbell over the flat, an Aframe at full height (much higher than agility) and a meter jump.



    Jennifer trains in FR I think, or mondio, also Stafinois trained in the sport, they can help with this better than I. I know the fundamentals but not the details. I would say however Mondio and FR are not as odd breed friendly as sch, in some ways these are much harder sports on the dog.


    Start with a google search, that is where I found mine. Then if that doesn't work start asking the dog community. I have even seen a few inquiries on CL. Be VERY comfortable with shopping around. I fell into a pretty good trainer right off the bat but I'm lucky and I know it now. I have watched one of the other trainers in town the "GSD expert" and he will grab a young dog by the prong and drag it over a frame, he will also smack the ever living crap out of puppies with a tug for god knows why (probably defense?). Things that are just wrong and I cringe when we train next to them but it happens often, small community with limited open areas.

    Always good to try! Honestly if you follow sch ob you'll have better control of your dog than 99% of people you meet. The tracking is a blast and a great skill to have if you have patience. It's amazing for the dogs and it's a place where you step back and let them do the work. It's fun to watch them process (usually, sometimes I come back to the car cursing the ever living existence of dogs LOL). The bitework is a blast, there are no questions about it and the dogs love it.

    We have 5 malinois, a tervuren, a GSD, 2 knpv dutch, and a border collie as our regulars. Of course the GSD, dutch, and mal are predictable but the terv and border are fun too. The terv needs a lot of work but the border collie is actually coming along very nicely.
     
  5. jenv101

    jenv101 Bite Club

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    Agree with everything Adrianne said^^

    I'd say if you have access to both Schutzhund and FR, you should give both a try if you are interested and if the club is welcoming!

    I'm still new to the sports as well, we just formed a FR club and are still learning. The closest access we have to real FR trainers is 8-9 hr drive away and we can't get there over the winter very easily... Some people choose FR because they enjoy the protection and obedience phases but hate tracking. I kind of like tracking and I think we will continue with it either way.

    Schutzhund is more precise and based on how things look, how the dog looks, especially in the obedience parts. FR is less about show and more about control. The bitework is more complicated, and longer routines, the decoys are trying to outsmart the dog in some parts, but it is less confrontational for the dog (one of the reasons I wanted to try Riley in it, I thought it might be less stress for him as he is a pretty defensive dog).

    That's my newbie take on it :) I'd research both and check out the clubs and see what interests you the most, and see what Cricket likes to do!
     
  6. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I tried SchH with Jagger. The club was very open to newbies and to any breed. Jagger did really well and showed a good aptitude for it. However, it ended up being too "all consuming" for me. For to really pursue SchH, I would have probably had to give up my other dog-related activities and focus just on SchH. The training meetings were long and you were expected to be there for the entire thing, as you had to work in all three phases. It really is a big commitment to pursue these sort of sports. Most clubs don't really allow for long term "dabbling" in the sport and really, there wouldn't be much point to that anyway.
     
  7. Paige

    Paige Let it be

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    How would you know if this is something you'd like to get into before you have a dog that could even just attempt it? Bandit is way too soft of a dog to try anything like this but it has peeked my interest for years... yet I wouldn't want to get a dog with it in mind without first experiencing it to see if I am actually into it.
     
  8. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    Most clubs welcome interested people coming to watch practices, especially if they don't insist on having their dog evaluated that first visit, too - that's the best way to get a flavor for the sport *and* an individual club. You can also look up trials to go watch: http://www.germanshepherddog.com/ is the USCA's main site.
     
  9. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    Contact a club near you and ask if you can come out to watch! But keep in mind that not everyone is a good fit in every club. Clubs really vary in their training methods and ideologies, so keep that in mind if you go to watch.
     
  10. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    That's what I did the first time I saw SchH in real life. There's no pressure on you that way, just lurk in the background and observe. :)
     
  11. Hillside

    Hillside Original Twin

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    I know in another post you mentioned you wanted to do therapy work with Crickee, bear in mind that some therapy groups will not allow a dog that has been trained in bitework to participate in therapy.
     
  12. skittledoo

    skittledoo Crazy naked dog lady

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    Ya right now I'm just getting ideas on what I want to do with her and figuring out where she would excel more. I'm not planning on her doing both. We are going to take a therapy dog class through my work which basically just introduces things your dog will run into doing therapy work. If she does well then that may be what i pursue with her... If she doesnt like it then sure I may look further into the idea of schutzhund, but I'm still unsure if I actually want to pursue that or not since from the sound of this thread the amount of time required to do Schutzhund might be too much for Cricket on top of doing agility which is my main goal with her.
     
  13. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    I do both agility and schutzhund with Kes and Aeri and training for both sports has slowed down each dogs' progress in both sports, but it can be done. The costs of paying for both is pretty significant too: $300 annually for schh club, $70 every two weeks for agility (private lessons give me more time with the instructor for my money), plus a total of between 120 and 340 miles on my car per week. And those costs and miles are fixed regardless of the number of dogs I have.

    Not to mention trialling costs: easily $50-100 per dog per schh trial and at least $100 per dog per agility trial.
     
  14. Paige

    Paige Let it be

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    Oh that's a great idea to go watch. I'm excited now. I know it won't be a short term goal but things are up in the air for my next dog two years down the line. I'd love to go get to know what my area has to offer and see if it's realistic fit or not.

    Eep I'm stoked.
     
  15. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    Yeah I think it would be extremely hard to do both given the time involved. BUT many agility trainers use fun tug work as a reward in agility training. A good decoy can help you learn how to tug effectively with your dog.

    I would go spend some time visiting clubs and watching training. It will not only give you a better idea on if its for you or not, but also show you if that particular club's training methods are something you want to do with Cricket. I for one and very thankful that my finances meant I could never join the club here and got told to find my own way when I did have the finances to show up again... the trainer I work with one on one (basically puppy tug games for fun as far as agitation/bitework) is so much more experienced and positive than the people who do club. Just my experience though!

    Delta won't take dogs that are fed raw or do bitework of any kind, however TDI will. :)
     
  16. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I would still like to get Sloan a TDI title.

    I'm glad you're considering things responsibly! I would focus on one sport, once you have a grasp on it, then dapple til your hearts content. :)

    I started out thinking I would do a bunch with Backup. This type of thinking (and doing) has put him on the slow bus as far as progression in schutzhund. He is catching up and he'll get there but some of his foundation is a bit askew and some of it is definitely because of the multi sport attempts. He is a one sport dog, nothing wrong with that. He is at home in sch and doesn't do well trained in too many sports. We gave up on flyball because of this and it's worth it. Sloan does well in multi sports but she's not common and even then some of the sports do negatively effect one another. It does help that I run her in agility while Denis works her in everything else (schutzhund and dock dogs and competitive obedience).
     

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