SAR corgis?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by cliffdog, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. cliffdog

    cliffdog New Member

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    Has anyone heard of such a thing?

    Most people are surprised to find out, because I'm a big southern guy with an affinity for dobermans, APBTs, and hounds, but I really have a strong affinity for working corgis. I love their attitude, their drive, and their compact size. However, I've never heard of a purebred corgi doing SAR. My SAR trainer has an awesome, awesome little corgi/GSD mix who was certain to be certified in short order, but her career was cut short when she was struck by a car. I love that dog and it has me wondering if a dog without the GSD influence could be as capable.

    I know there are some "corgi people" here, and I just wanted to ask if these robust little guys have ever participated in SAR... Or if this is one breed I should just forget about and stick with dobermans!
     
  2. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    Let me contact Keeva's breeder for you. Keeva's dam is a "MAR" dog... that is, Missing Animal Response. Her breeder would know if any Cardis (at least) are working in SAR.

    ETA: If I thought I have it in me, I'd try it with Keeva. She's drivey, loves to use her nose, and would be easy enough to carry if injured. But I just don't think SAR work is for me, alas.
     
  3. dreameyce

    dreameyce New Member

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    Galaxy does lost dog SAR, but is not certified so I don't advertise, but she's trained for it and has given successful alerts/finds. We're possibly going to be doing work towards getting me certified this year but since there's only one legit person in the US doing that, and she's not actively doing that now we're rather stuck ;)

    There was a working woodland search SAR Cardigan, but I believe that dog has passed and I'm not sure if the handler is working another Cardi or not. I've also known of a couple Cardis trained in remains detection, but not sure if any were ever on-call (Since some handlers train, and never get called by PD's to go on duty...)

    I don't own Pems, but I personally thing that the drivey Cardigans would be excellent SAR dog, esp for urban situations. Cardigans are bred for rocky terrain, with large well-padded feet which are not pron to injury (Unlike some other typical SAR breeds), are much smaller than most typical SAR breeds, and my sound working Cardigans can easily clear 3 feet in a jump. I've considered working towards SchI with Galaxy, but don't have access to a training club and am clueless about how to get us trial-ready without help! I don't think I could title farther, but she loves bitework, and will fly to hit sleeves like a stubby-Malinios which is adorable to watch ;)

    If you were looking for a working prospect Corgi, I'd go with a breeder with drivier, lighter boned dogs, as many Corgis are bred to have heavy bone, and be lazy. I prefer leggier dogs than often seen winning in the show rings, as they tend to get more ground under them when they move, and have better turning abilities. The original statements about Corgi heights was that you should be able to fit a fist under their chest, but even my small hands have trouble with most dogs in the ring, even fitting 3 fingers under some dogs in the ring today ;)

    I think the big thing is that if you're looking specifically for a specific task work, most people go to dogs with lines bred for that task. If you're serious about agility, you're recommended to get a BC, Pap, JRT, or other breed from agility lines. If you're looking for herding, same thing, you're recommended to go to a herding line. And there's just not many Corgi breeders breeding for only working dogs, and not many people seeking out Corgis specifically for working. So it comes down to if you find the right Corgi you have an exceptional 'do everything' dog who shocks the world, but most people go straight to the 'heavy hitter' specialized breeds/dogs for working traits, using dogs specifically purpose bred, instead of finding a drivey catch-all dog!
     
  4. cliffdog

    cliffdog New Member

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    Thanks for the responses! I'd love to hear from Keeva's breeder.

    I'm aware of the sad state that the breed is in, not really fit-for-function, but I'm confident I'll be able to find a good working breeder. I know they're out there! If it comes right down to it, I'll be willing to save up and import.
     
  5. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    I worked my Corgi mix in SAR for 9 months - she's 15.5" at the shoulder and after a seminar we were dismissed because she was "too small" and thus wouldn't be able to cover ground effectively?! I really think politics were more to play, but realize that some trainers in SAR believe that there is a minimum size requirement and while your group might accept the dog, they may bow to a "master trainer" after you've put in time and money. :p
     
  6. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

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    Dreameyce is Keeva's breeder. ;)

    This thread is relevant to my interests. /resumeslurking
     
  7. cliffdog

    cliffdog New Member

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    Wow, really?! That's crazy! While our group was mostly labs and GSDs, there were quite a few mutts, and some were quite small... My trainer has 3 smaller dogs. The guy in charge had nothing negative to say about them. In fact he once mentioned that a lost little girl might be less intimidated seeing my trainer's cute little terrier cross coming at her as opposed to my sister's 90-something rott mix, lol!
     
  8. cliffdog

    cliffdog New Member

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    Oh, okay! Haha.
     
  9. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    Yea - it may depend on what flavor of SAR to some extent (the group I was with did wilderness, not disaster SAR), but in our case they thought she wouldn't be suitable for HRD either which makes no sense to me. Hence my thought about it being politics related, too.
     
  10. While we don't have any dogs that size on our team, I have worked with a few small dogs in HRD. Some have a hard time on certain types of terrain, and they can sometimes wear out quicker because of it. But I have seen them do some really excellent work in an urban setting. That being said, I have not specifically worked with Corgis in SAR, just other small dogs.
     
  11. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I could have sworn I had seen two dachshunds as SAR dogs of some sort... Was I imagining it?
     
  12. ~WelshStump~

    ~WelshStump~ New Member

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    Well, I've never myself seen a SAR Corgi before, BUT, I did see a Dachshund do SAR work on a TV show years ago (Dogs with jobs). She worked with a team who did searches in heavily wooded areas, where her short stature made her perfect for finding lost children (not just getting into place adults and larger dogs couldn't go, but she was far less "intimidating" of a dog).

    That said, I do think if you found the right breeder/dogs, YES! A Corgi of either variety could do it. But I agree in full to this-

    Jinjo is a great hunter, and extremely determined. But, he is lower on stature than I would prefer, especially if you were looking into this kind of work. You would have to be extremely choosy with your breeder, on top of having all the proper health tests, looking for someone who selects for agility and ability above show ring conformation.
     
  13. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Small definitely has advantages. If a small dog gets injured in the field they're much easier to carry out. They can also fit into smaller places, which if you're ever pulling people out of earthquake rubble or something like that is a nice feature to have.
     
  14. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    My friend has 2 Corgis that run Agility and do well at it!

    I would be wondering though, I know from the other forum that you only ever want outside dogs.Cardigan Corgi's are a lot like GSDs and need a lot of human/family interaction. I think it will be harder to find a good breeder that will let you chain a Corgi up outside or leave it outside all the time in a kennel.

    Good Luck in your search. SAR takes a ton of time, money and dedication!
     
  15. dreameyce

    dreameyce New Member

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    Yup, I'm Keevas (Very proud!) breeder, and thrilled to have my working prospect puppies in great working/performance homes! Both parents are performance/work titled. Galaxy is Keeva's dam, she herds, dog agility, K9 Nosework, lost dog SAR, and is a certified medical alert service dog. I'm incredibly lucky to have Galaxy, who is from performance titled and working lines, which also happen to be top-winning show lines, including the top winning bitch, and dog in Cardigans both in her recent pedigree. I love having a breed without a big show/performance split, and hope Cardigans always stay this way!

    I have hopes/plans to breed Galaxy again this winter as long as all goes well, and of course if the breeding were to take. The stud I've chosen is in Oregon and I'm in Texas and I've not yet decided whether it would be a live breeding where I fly her up there, or shipped chilled semen. Will have to wait and see!

    Emily~
     
  16. dreameyce

    dreameyce New Member

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    There's a line of Doxies bred for blood tracking deer... recovering lost deer who've been shot and not mortally wounded. They're imported lines, but bred in the NE and shipped all over the US. Some even have AKC field titles, and conformation Championships!! Veeeery nice dogs, and if I were to ever get a Doxie, I'd got for one of them :)
     
  17. dreameyce

    dreameyce New Member

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    All the SAR dogs I personally know are family pets first and foremost, then working dogs. Maybe you're talking about professional dogs, like who work with PD's, fire departments, or military, and live in kennel situations? Some of those dogs are expected to work with multiple handlers/not be handler biased. All depends on the training program.

    Private SAR handlers are typically volunteers who work their personal pets in the field, on their own dime.
     
  18. dreameyce

    dreameyce New Member

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    I've noted a size bias in many sports and work, not just in SAR. As someone who has done protection sport, herding, agility, scentwork and more with her Cardis, I get biased/breedist people in all venues who simply don't like short dogs. I have to remind them though, these are cattle herding dogs, and my dogs can, and do herd cattle, sheep, goats, ducks, and chickens.
     
  19. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    She's referring specifically to Cliffdog who has made the choice/preference to tether/chain as opposed to kennel/crate when the dog is not interacting with it's owner. It's a personal choice but I do believe it limits the type of dogs you can own. Like I have said in another thread I would never chain a malinois in the yard unsupervised, talk about asking for trouble!

    Thank you for confirming I'm not losing my mine lol Icould have sworn I had seen a SAR Dach or two...
     
  20. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    That is what I was referring too.

    I don't have a problem with it cause as you said it is a personal choice. I just know the Cardigan Corgis I know are very GSD like and would absolutely not do well in a tether environment. A nice kennel during the day and inside with people at night, fine...but tethered with little interaction except training..the ones I know would not do well.

    I wouldn't chain a GSD out in the yard either. That is trouble.

    I really like what I have seen from "Chase" of Elyan Corgis. He has some awesome progeny...my friend's is a tracking machine!
     

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