Saarloos wolfhound

poeluvr

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#22
nope it looks like a toy border collie evryone thinks so. its actually a jack russell and A pomeraniain. it takes after the mother like most dogs do for being a jack. but he has a big forhead pom eyes, and a curly pig like tail from the pom, and is gonna be real small. thanks though. i have more pics in the puppy gallery if ur interested, theyre under poe
 

poeluvr

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#23
hes a pup, but surprisingly enough not too energetic.hes going to puppy school on monday, cant wait!
 
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stirder

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#25
no no no, not saying that it has more wolf in it. it does have wolf in it, but not as recent. and it depends on the german shepherd bloodlines, but some of them do look more wolfish than some sarloos. the only things I have against the sarloos is that (though it has been used for some of the same purposes as the gsd) it was bred to eliminate hip displasia from gsd's, and some of the gsd's used in the breeding were highly prone to the problem. they were not showing signs of it yet, some never did develop it themselves but did produce it in offspring. due to the breeding purpose it is (mentally) more wild than domestic and therefore is harder to train, less territorial and due to its nature it is more liekyl to become a fear biter.
and in a way yes the sarloos is a wolf hybrid. technically there is no such thing as a wolf hybrid though...wolves are canis lupis, divided into sub-species such as the arctic wolf which is canis lupis arctos. the domestic dog is no longer classified as canis familiaris (a seperate canine species, like the coyote or jackals) but is now classified as canis lupis familiaris, just a sub species of wolf. therefore a cross between a wolf and a dog is really a wolf-dog. a hybrid would be a coyote (canis latrans) which is not a subspecies of wolf, crossed with a domestic dog, or wild wolf. the red wolf is highly beleived to be a hybrid of gray wolf and coyote. canis rufus.
the sarloos is more dog like than most wolf-dogs as we know them because most wolf-dogs are between 1st and 3rd generation crosses. there was a experiment in siberia in the late 90's which I cant find any info about online right now, but maybe later since I didnt spend much time trying to relocate it just now. in the experiment they kept foxes in captivity, in the same fassion as fur farmers do. after 8 generations they had developed domestic traits such as: one eye brown, one eye blue; some developed curly hair, others longer than natural soft/fine hair; some with smooth coats like a pointer; some with wire coats; some had longer legs; some had smaller or larger ears; some started showing colors of domestic dogs such as brindle, cream, golden, multi like a gsd, saint bernard etc; all of them were easily handled by humans and only one of I think around 250 showed a prey drive. and that was just breeding captive foxes for several generations, and proved that our ancestors could have just as easily domesticated the dog from the wolf in that short a time. the different traits such as herding, gaurding, retrieving, terrier etc would have taken quite a few more generations of selective breeding. also these fox breeders were not selectively breeding for traits, they just werent allowing them to breed back to wild foxes.
I said that last part to explain that Im certainly not saying the sarloos is wild or uncontrollable. I am just saying they are much harder to train than most of the top popular dog breeds. and more prone to fear biting. and due to their wolf nature they are (from what I've heard from breeders) more prone to wandering. one sarloos breeder in switzerland I spoke with said that she would compare the sarloos' trainability and sociability to a breed like the tibetan mastiff, anatolian shepherd, or great pyrenese (great pyr. several years ago, not the GP today), which are more inclined to come and cuddle when THEY want to, roam long ways, and obey a command ONLY if and when they want to. the same breeder also said she has 2 sarloos that she does therapy and obedience trials with. it takes a lot more time, patience, and training than most people expect. personally I think they are a beautiful dog. if they start being bred for working ability (wether obedience, schutzhund, herding, or something else) and become more readily available I would consider one.
 
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stirder

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#26
if your looking for a sarloos, but dont want to pay a lot of money, you might try http://www.liquinet.com/wolfdogadoption/ these are in foster homes and have extensive selection process for potential adopters, not to keep people from having them, but to make sure you get one that fits into your life style. and they need homes. if you are looking for something that looks like a wolf but acts like a dog, they will place a low-content wolf dog with you. if a certain wolf dog is likely not to fit with you then they wont give it to you, they dont want it to come back.
 

wolfdoggy

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#27
stirder said:
if your looking for a sarloos, but dont want to pay a lot of money, you might try http://www.liquinet.com/wolfdogadoption/ these are in foster homes and have extensive selection process for potential adopters, not to keep people from having them, but to make sure you get one that fits into your life style. and they need homes. if you are looking for something that looks like a wolf but acts like a dog, they will place a low-content wolf dog with you. if a certain wolf dog is likely not to fit with you then they wont give it to you, they dont want it to come back.
Thank you very much for that link! Do you know if it's reliable? Just so I won't end up with an illtreated wolf, that some fools have bestowed upon me?

Another thing. These wolfdogs are not exactly the youngest of puppies. I have read that one must get them at a very young age, even young compaired to normal dogs. Taking in one such as these doesn't sound wise to me. How will I know if it wont be foolish to take one of these?
 
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stirder

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#28
several years ago I adopted a 75% wolf 25% german shepherd. he has since died of cancer. anyway...from the time I began the adoption process till the time I actually braught the dog home was over 6 months. they first reviewed my application (and by they I mean 12 people), then they did 2 home checks, they contacted my vet to make sure he would treat a wolf dog (some wont) and to question him as to what type of owner he thought I was. they they introduced me to 15 different wolf dogs. some they KNEW were not suited for me, but they wanted to get a better feel for me, was I honest about wanting a happy, healthy, friendly dog and not caring about wolf content etc, or was I lying and really wanting something that looked like a wolf, no matter what they said about its personality. after adoptng him they called several times to make sure I was still reachable, and they did 3 home checks in 4 years to check on the dog and to make sure its environment hadnt changed (such as chaining it up in the back yard and never checking on it). if one of their dogs is not suited to living indoors with a person, family, children, dogs, cats etc they wont let you adopt it, but they will keep you in mind and at the top of the list for one that IS suited to that. you have to sign a contract garaunteeing that if for ANY reason you cannot keep the dog you will contact them and let THEM find it a new home. also it costs on average, $500-1,000 to foster a wolf dog for a month, including feed, toys, vet bills, collars, leashes, etc. the average adoption fee (unless it has gone up since I adopted) is $250-400. they do occasionally have puppies, actually right now they have a litter thats 2 1/2 months old. and most of their wolf dogs were raised by people from an early age, and were turned over after they grew up and the owner didnt know how to control them, many are low content dogs whos owners died and family couldnt handle them or moved and couldnt take them (to a state that doesnt allow them or just a smaller yard or an apartment), some are from states who recently changed legislation to prohibit wolf dogs, some were seized from neglectful homes, and others most likely have NO wolf in them but the owner claimed they did, and therefore were deemed un-adoptable by city and state shelters. these dogs are not kept in shelters (unless it says urgent) but in foster homes, all over the country. the foster parent tries to fix any behaviour problems while they have the dog, and will make sure you are aware of any problems before adopting. each of these foster parents is more strict about who the dog goes to than most dog breeders are. most breeders dont do home checks, ever, let alone continue to do them AFTER the adoption. sarloos may be the way to go for you (any of you) but can be hard to locate, and can be expensive. just a suggestion that adopting one of these dogs might be the way to go. the one I adopted was 5 years old and high content, behaviour was almost purely german shepherd, appearance was totally wolf.
edited to add this picture of the wolf hybrid I adopted...
 
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stirder

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#31
he was very friendly. he loved everyone. he wasnt overly friendly on introductions, what I mean is he wouldnt just go up to strangers and start trying to get petted or lick them. he would stay next to me and wait for me to introduce them, then hed approach and sniff them, and let them pet him. then after about 10 seconds of that he was their new best friend, and never forgot anyone. aside from appearance he was almost exactly a german shepherd except for 2 major points (there were some minor ones but dont spring to mind at the moment, maybe as Im writing they will) one was he never barked. a couple of times I heard what I would call a chuff, kind of like a grunt or heavy sigh? and he would yip when he was excited, and he would howl. only heard him growl once and that was while camping. I didnt hear or see anything, and didnt let him go run off, not that he was trying too, he was actually gluing himself to my leg. but the next day spoke to a family camping about 1/4 mile down the trail. they said a smallish black bear came through their camp about 15-20 mintues after Kiowa growled, from the direction of my camp site. I have no idea if he would have faught it, I dont mean actually attacking and biting but if he would have tried to scare it off. the other difference was anytime we were around other dogs, if they tried in the slightest way to assert dominance he wouldnt fight or growl, or even put up his hackles. he would simply spin around on a front foot and slam his butt into their head or chest and knock them down. looked like he was smiling the whole time. hed do this untill the other dog walked away (or was pulled away).
he was very easy to train. I taught him sit, lie down, heel, shake hands, roll over, play dead, beg, bow, bring and leave it. he loved to chew bones and his toys but never chewed any furniture or anything. he was good with the cat. every morning we'd get his toys out of their basket in the corner and play, and several times a day he would carry them all back to the basket, something I didnt train him to do but he did from day one. he loved car rides, would beg but would stay atleast a few feet away and patiently wait, and rarely get anything. his recall (off leash, "come here") was better than most of the german shepherds I've trained and met.
he was very clear on the pack order and never challenged it, after the first few weeks that is, once he learned that I was 1st in command and he was second. in fact the first week we were dating my (now) wife was puppy sitting him for a few hours. he had already accepted the fact, minutes after meeting her, that she was higher rank than him. she tried to get him to get on the sofa with her and cuddle while she watched tv. he had never gotten on the sofa before but I had never told him not too either. he would snuggle up to her legs, and lay down on her feet, or rest his head in her lap while she petted him but he wouldnt get on the couch, even when she offered him a hot dog.
but like any breed of dog, that was an individual and I have heard more stories about wolf dogs being kept by people who didnt do the proper research, and the dogs were uncontrollable. but I've also heard a lot of stories like that about domestic breeds. so it of course depends on the individual animal, the owner, the home, the amount of love, etc. from what I've heard (never let it happen with Kiowa so dont know) if you let them disobey a command once, they'll try to get away with disobeying other commands. but again, thats the same with dogs.
oh, he loved snow and water. when it was snowing, raining, or when we went to a creek or lake he was happier than any kid on christmas morning. and he LOVED kids. my neices learned how to stand and walk by grabbing handfulls of his fur. hed just stand still, not even wag his tail to avoid knocking them over. and if the kids would allow it, hed lay down and position them so they were leaning against his belly. everytime he was around them he had a huge doggy smile. and was always reluctant to leave them.
 

wolfdoggy

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#32
He sounds cute.
I wonder how I am to make sure that he wont disobey my commands from time to time?
After all that is the character of wolfdogs in general. Something one can't train away.

You were lucky to have such an easy dog. Especially when he was a high content wolf. Chances of me getting one like that, are minimum.
 

poeluvr

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#33
wolfdoggy said:
Puppy school? Cute name, never heard it before. Where is this puppy gallery?
at the top beside dog forum go to dog pictures. there is a litle box where you can type the name of the picture your lokking for (poe) and it should appear
 

wolfdoggy

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#38
Not with the life I have at the moment. Education takes more than half my life. And I'm only at the start of it. 6-7 more years, and then I'm done. I'm afraid having a dog until then is out of the question. But we'll see.
 

wolfdoggy

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#40
I'm not sure. Americans don't use the same names for schools as we do.

Right now I'm in a school one is in for two years. At the same time as this, I am taking some extra classes that will increase my chances of getting good grades. That will put one extra year on top of the cake. Then after that, I can go to the university, and do what I want(whatever that might be).
 

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