Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Teal, Aug 27, 2011.
Kinda like this post?
Ummm...I never once mentioned a name in my post. And even if i had put someone's name there, how would that be a "personal attack"?
The thing is, people have a right to know about this behavior pattern if they have been contacted by her about a puppy.
Trust me: my life is much nicer without being involved in Internet drama. But in this case, people I know stand a high chance of being screwed over, and the dogs caught in the middle possibly have a much worse fate.
When you make your bed, don't be surprised when you're forced to lie in it. (So make it wisely.....)
No, not at all. My post wasn't attacking anyone personally. It was confronting a post and a statement, not a person.
No, but you only named off every breed of dog that Teal has expressed interest in or owns...hmmm... Funny coincidence or a subtle insult? I'll bet on subtle insult.
And what sort of behavior pattern is that, exactly? Rehoming dogs that don't fit into her home properly? Oh, the horror!
Not really true. My co-breeder and I were recently accused publicly of keeping our dogs locked in crates inside a filthy house, wallowing in their own **** and feces, by someone we repossessed a puppy from. Many people jumped on the bandwagon immediately. And you know what? Within minutes of returning home, video was taken and uploaded with timestamps to prove that the accusations were false. Now? The only "mark" on our backs are from the ex-friend we repossessed the dog from, and from the other ex-friend who was blindly parroting the information from her (who also happens to be the same person who literally, physically watched a former mutual friend starve dogs to death and didn't tell us, just stopped taking pictures and swept it under the rug...which is why this crap hits very close to home with me). Pretty much everyone else apologized and moved on with their lives.
At least the folks here on Chaz are, for the most part, giving the benefit of the doubt (while being guarded, and rightfully so) and asking the OP for her side of the story. I don't think most people here want it to be true and would happily be proven wrong. I know I certainly don't want it to be true and I'd love to be able to find out that the dog was in that condition through no fault of a human. I'd love to! Honest.
Originally Posted by Miakoda
Some people belong to the breed of the month club.
Look....a gamebred APBT! I need one of those! Now I'm in!!!
Wait! People are fawning over those built dual registered AST/APBTs! I gotta get me one!
A Bull Terrier? WHAT?!?! I must have one!
Wow.....Salukis are super rare! Sign me up, sista!
Dude. That's one of those fabled Filas! I'm gonna get me one, too! Hey, everybody! Look at meeeeeee!!!!!!
Hmmm....the Malinois sure seems to be the new cool talked-about breed. Hey, you! I wanna buy a puppy!
Teal's name was not mentioned in Miakoda's post. Pretty generalized if you ask me.
Poor baby does look very thin in the pictures...
Excuse me if I know how to recognize a subtle insult when I see one. If you're going to say something about someone, say it. Don't hide behind semantics and the "oh, but I didn't say their name" bull.
Renee, that was a great post.
Barbara, I'm not asking you to believe the worst in a friend. I know if someone I held dear and respected a lot had these accusations pointed at them I would be fighting tooth and nail too. But, you have to admit you came here biased and you (along with Teal) aren't doing much to prove anything Red Chrome said as false.
And I'll be honest, I wasn't unbiased either though I did try very hard to look at it through unbiased eyes. I think the most telling part is all the people in this thread with no horse in this race that are just not being able to look at this situation and the evidence presented by both sides and come out saying anything but what Red Chrome has stated.
Do you know what happened? Do you have an explanation other than "SHE DIDN"T DO IT!" and "RED CHROME IS A STALKER!" to make all this make sense and show the Teal did not in fact deserve this?
Overall I think Chaz has been seriously good here and very open and willing to listen. The problem is nothing much is being said.
politics, this makes me think about politics.
I'm not sure how to ask this without is sounding snarky, and I sure don't mean it that way, just curious, but Barbara, why are you so angrily defending Teal? Why not let her/him speak for themselves? What dog do you have in this fight?
As for the rest... Oy...
First off, I can't look at those pictures and remain neutral. Just can't.
There are so many ways I can speculate as to what happened, but I really have a hard time thinking the breeder let that happen to the pup only to fatten the pup up again and make Teal look bad. That just doesn't add up.
The breeder not wanting folks to know that she totally vetted a potential buyer wrong - that I can see.
Either way, I feel this sort of thing needs to come out, needs to see the light of day, needs to be talked about in the open.
There was a great dane breeder who was showing, presenting a great front to the world, come to find out she has major abuse and neglect going on at home. Who knows how much longer those dogs would have suffered had someone not had the guts to say something and push for an investigation instead of whispers ringside.
But seriously... Really?
Why is Barbara defending Teal so zealously?
Probably -- and I'm speculating -- because she's a friend? I won't fault that, although the methods maybe aren't really helping all that much.
Do I think Teal is an awful, reprehensible human being with no conscience or redeeming qualities?
No. Again, speculating, but somehow I think this might be a case of getting into something that was too far beyond what she was expecting and things went south. As much as she sounds, from her own posts, like she was avoiding this little guy, she may not have even consciously noticed the harm until it was in-your-face obvious.
Was it handled well? The way the accounts read and from the pictorial evidence, OH HELL NO. Are the questions being answered adequately? Nope. But I can understand how Teal would be feeling very defensive, and that isn't conducive to clear thinking.
Neither does feeling as if one is being attacked tend to make one feel inclined -- or safe -- in opening up and admitting something went terribly wrong and and expressing how one feels.
We make mistakes, some mistakes are worse than others. We learn, we make sure we don't make those mistakes again.
Is RedChrome a vindictive bitch for bringing this back up?
I don't see it. I see someone who is concerned that the same thing doesn't happen again, and understandably angry that it happened in the first place, has questions and wants answers and accountability. The obvious history between the RC and Teal sets the stage for a seemingly unavoidably adversarial encounter.
The best thing that could come of all this is a clearing of the air, deep breaths, learning and realization and maybe even a step away from animosity.
Just on a personal note, no, I can't fathom anyone being able to turn their back on a Fila, and those photos of him bring tears to my eyes and make my heart hurt, seeing how hurt and sad he was, even knowing he has a home where he is loved and cherished now, but that's just me, and that's why I'm a Fila person. But, as several of us have said over and over and over, they aren't for everyone.
Something has REALLY been bothering me after someone asked why Teal would try to return a puppy to the breeder if it was in such poor condition without fattening it up first.
If we are to believe the breeder then (from post #75 if anyone wants to backtrack):
If that's true, Teal was lying from the beginning about the breeder being unresponsive about returning the puppy. The whole thread started as a cover for whatever was going to happen to him until people dug up her name (which Teal got upset about), posted her contact info (which Teal also got upset about) and someone else made the breeder aware of the situation.
This is really making me sick to my stomach. I don't want to think that's what happened. But it's right there. I know personally I believe Dianna over anyone else.
The pattern of behavior disturbs me and makes me question what really happened to some of the other dogs that Jairi had a hard time interacting or connecting with.
I don't think this was done on purpose but it was done.
There have been a few posts on Chaz that have broke my heart...this is one of them. The pictures as so very sad. To see a Fila puppy( Any Puppy ) in this shape is devastating. I only hope and pray is has not been done to other dogs in the past and will not be repeated in the future. Filas, are not for most people. The majority of people do not, or never will, be able to understand this breed.
I am going to go hug my three monsters, go visit Brutie, Cleo and the other dog's graves. Cry some more. Then, thank God and the Universe for allowing me to be so incredibly blessed to have been able to share my life with such beautiful, loving, kind, considerate, amazing, funny, warped, smarter than most humans, and last, but not least...majestic animals. They really are angels from on high.
No offense taken. I do feel that puppy looks perfectly healthy. It's highly recommended that large breeds are kept lean during growth. And really, a growth spurt could result in a puppy looking super skinny suddenly. The breeder is a show breeder and obviously they prefer fatter dogs than working people. I know a certain Kelpie puppy, Limit, who has gone through some crazy skinny phases where he looked just as thin as Bullseye does there... thinner even! But no one would accuse his mom of anything but amazing care of her digs. An owner who doesn't care enough to feed her puppy some kibble isn't going to take that puppy on socialization outings, take professional photos of them, and keep them for months even when the breeder neglects to answer their calls and ignores their requests to return the puppy for weeks. A malnourished puppy isn't going to be running and playing with other pups.
there are vet records out there that prove he was malnourished though. Its also been said by the breeder that she hadnt had more then 2 phone calls from the person. They made it a point to drive (2 hours i think its been said) to GET the dog and take it to the new home.
I honestly cant judge body condition by the pic Teal posted. Yes, owning a giant breed puppy they do get very thin and ribby/hippy even quickly. But NOT emaciated in a day or two....the pic he looks on the lean side but you cant tell if its just a bit lean from a growth spurt or actually skinny on the way to emaciated. With the follow up pic from the breeder just days after this pic was supposedly taken the conclusion would be too thin in this pic vs just lean growing pup.
I am not familiar enough at all to judge a fila but something looks off in tah pic, he looks a bit lackluster and sickly - but again, can't really tell
Also looking at the breeders pictures on their site they dont look fat but normal weight.
Separate names with a comma.