Returning a dog to the breeder - Questions/Rant

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Teal, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    The breeder is very nice and responsive, everything you'd want a breeder to be in this situation.

    I hope the puppy finds his way back to safe, responsible hands. Good luck pup!
     
  2. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    I know their HOME address. I've been to the home. But how am I to know she gets mail at her home? I'm sorry, I didn't check for a mail box. If someone tried to send mail to MY home address, it would be returned - we don't get mail delivered, and have to use a Post Office box. So not knowing her MAILING address doesn't seem like such a crime when I have her home address, email, and phone number.

    To my own credit... This breeder was WELL researched, and is a very responsible and respected breeder. Hence why I was TRYING to keep names out of this thread. But, since some egotistical people would like to think they know everything and open their big mouths, I guess my quest for anonymity on the part of the breeder is blown out of the water :rolleyes:

    For the record - I have no problem with the Fila-side of the temperament of this dog. That is not my issue with him. He is actually an incredibly sweet, responsive puppy. In fact - he is beyond sweet and responsive. He is incredibly soft (temperament wise) with me. For those of you who apparently know me OH SO WELL - you know that I don't work well with soft-temperament dogs. I didn't comprehend the degree of softness Filas have with their owners, having never owned one and only seeing Filas from the "I'm a stranger" side of it. So excuse the hell out of me for recognizing that the dog is not a proper fit for me and my home, and trying to do the responsible thing by returning it to its breeder ;)

    Adrianne - All I can do is laugh. Yes, my hands sure aren't safe and responsible! I love how some forum people get egos and think they know everything about someone and therefor have the right to condemn them at will.
     
  3. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    If you send her something via snail mail to her home address and she doesn't get mail there, then you'll get it returned and you'll know ;)
     
  4. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I'm not condemning you, I hope you and the breeder work things out. He's obviously not in the best hands if you're not choosing to keep him, seems simple? I am not the best life long home for my foster dog, that is why I am still looking for a home for him, it's not some grand insult.

    I can only know exactly what you put out there on forums, you seem like a nice gal, I have several friends who have known you in person at trials, and you seem to love your dogs. You are however seemingly going through some tough stuff which has put your dogs in some turmoil (placing multiples) so maybe taking a step back and not getting more puppies right away would be the best option.

    Good luck either way you go.
     
  5. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    For some reason, people have SERIOUS issues with taking in dogs and attempting to find them homes that are right for them. For some reason, people think that if someone takes in a dog, it should stay with them? The dogs I was placing, with the exception of one with special circumstances, were not "my" dogs - one was a shelter pup, and one was dumped on me by an ex-girlfriend. The cause of a lot of the turmoil WAS having extra dogs in the house that weren't proper fits, seeing as how they weren't dogs I chose to bring into the home. Trust me, I've learned my lesson about trying to help out people by helping out their dogs! MY dogs don't get rehomed when things are tough or crappy - they are all I have, and I am all they have... we stick with each other. I have a habit of opening my heart to animals that don't have such devoted people, and attempting to find that for them. For some reason, people interpret that as me "getting" dogs and then "rehoming" them... when I never intended to keep the dog for my own, only to find it a proper home. Which, fortunately for the dogs and unfortunately for my reputation, has worked out extremely well. But I'm entirely over the drama, chaos, and everything else associated with independent rescue work - which is why I am keeping an eye out for a dog for ME, instead of trying to help anyone else.
     
  6. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I guess I would feel differently if your dogs had been known as fosters.

    In the past you've labeled dogs as "ours" and "fosters". I didn't see the ones you're rehoming having been labeled as fosters.
     
  7. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Let's try to avoid OFD (Other Forum Drama). If someone isn't what they seem it will show up sooner or later. We try to let people have a fresh start here.
     
  8. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I completely understand and respect that, Renee. I was confused by "I am looking for appropriate homes for three members of my pack, through no fault of their own." (http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t137636/) I took this as a owner rehoming, not a foster placement, the source of my confusion.
     
  9. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    If you look at my original thread about the shelter puppies, I said they were too young to decide what would happen to them. If one happened to fit in and be what I wanted, then that's how it would be. If not, I'd continue looking for homes for them. No, some dogs didn't clearly get labeled as "fosters" - sorry that I am not strict on keeping with labels these days. I didn't label Angus a "foster" because I lived with the dog for 6 months when I moved in with my ex... I more considered him a "step-dog" and there was a trial period where we were seeing if he fit into how things work here and now, or if I should look for a home for him. He actually went on TWO trials with awesome, wonderful dog owners - and got returned both times. Not for any fault of his own, but just because he didn't feel like "their dog" and didn't fit in. Since the last trial he went on, which was longer than the first, he has actually modified behaviours I was working on with him and while he fit in here before, he now isn't a "work in progress" but a full blown member of the pack. I see no reason to attempt to rehome him again... he greeted me like one of MY dogs greets me when the last person brought him back. Though it's quite possible that when I move again, he'll stay with my father... Angus makes quite the awesome "man cave" dog :) So, what it comes down to is... dogs that come in that I haven't specifically chosen to be a part of the pack, can go either way. If they make a spot for themselves and just seem meant to be, they stay. If not, they find their perfect home and move on their way.




    I laughed pretty hard when I saw "OFD" because I am used to seeing "OFC" meaning open field coursing... so I was like... Open field... dogs? drama? dynamite? o_O oh hey, parenthesis, maybe I should read that! LOL
     
  10. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    I don't understand the "filas are soft with their owners". Filas are loyal dogs typically preferring their one owner, but accepting the rest of the family as theirs as well. APBTs are pretty much smooshballs on paws. They are far more "soft" with humans than a Fila would ever be. And I never met a BT that didn't think it's job was to cuddle up to any 2-legged creature it ever met.

    I just don't get the "soft" issue. Unless you're looking for a dog that will try to dominate you and test your every command as a threat to it's pack status every minute of day. And I just don't get that. (but maybe I'm too far off in the wrong direction)

    But a soft mastiff........I've never ever met such a creature.
     
  11. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Soft is such an interesting, relative, analysis of a dog.

    So many people really have trouble with dogs that need a creative hand. Funny enough Malinois are very commonly handler soft dogs, it is one of the most complicated things many handlers experienced with these dogs at the beginning. The corrections they can handle in bite work (many of them) are paramount compared to the corrections they can handle in obedience.

    Backup, my male, is frustrating but has taught me to be a far more creative trainer and seek a much more positive method in my training. Anyone else and he's all tooth and nail, a stern no or leash pop from me and he's lost.

    ETA, I guess also I've noticed the biggest difference of my mals and my apbt, though both handler soft, is that the apbt are far more forgiving. The Malinois tend to hold grudges and react in one way or another, unlike my apbt who try and try again and when that fails it's a begging smothering mess of "love me, please!"
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011
  12. thehoundgirl

    thehoundgirl Active Member

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    Well, I certainly hope you can get him back to the breeder if you don't think he belongs with you. The only "soft" mastiff I have ever met was a Dogue de Bordeaux at the dog daycare I used to work at but they are big mooshes. I don't think I would ever have a Fila to be honest, I just don't know enough about them to actually have one but I do like them.
     
  13. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    You need to have a strong bond with a Fila. If it's not your dog . . . it is SO not your dog.

    Not sure exactly what you mean by "soft" in this case. That's one of those very subjective, relative terms. Overall, though, it's a very good thing that Filas are very owner-centric, even at their most independent, "I'll get back to you when I'm finished with my IMPORTANT stuff." Especially then. They do get back to you, lol, just on their own schedule. No true Fila will ever be an obedience champ . . . unless he or she just happens to be in the mood to show everyone else up at the right time.

    They hold grudges -- against anyone except their family, and even then they just might get a little even with you for something, so it's a very good thing they have a big soft place for us. The bond is a really different one, and it's not the kind of bond that most people are prepared to commit to so fully. The intensity is . . . beyond.
     
  14. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    I didn't want to go into details, but I see I'll have to in order to justify something that I really should not have to justify to anyone.

    Everything you're saying about a Fila... my pup is not. My pup has NO independence AT ALL. He will not leave my sight. He will not let ME leave his sight, without pitching a fit. To sum it up on one word - this dog is obsessed. When I say that he is soft, I mean that if I even look at him wrong, he falls over himself, half-rolling over and half trying to keep eye contact with the tip of his tail wagging... begging for forgiveness for something he didn't even do. When I try to train him, he just falls into me and stares at me with lovey eyes. When I try to move, he leans into more. I should video it... I have NEVER met a dog like this in my life. And honestly - I don't know what the hell to do with it. No matter HOW I act to him, he does the same thing - falling over himself and me, staring at me like a lovestruck puppy... which I guess he is. Renee... you say it nicely when you say their intensity is beyond. I need a dog who can think on its own and show some independence... and this puppy has not, ever. And it's only getting worse. So yes, I am sorry if I was unprepared for the extreme level of devotion exuded by this dog. NOTHING I have read about them, including pages and pages about "owner devotion" could have prepared me for this. I consider Ruger devoted - he checks in with me, he loves me... he is devoted. This puppy cannot function without me at his side, and it's made life hell for both of us.

    ETA: I should add that things are being sorted out as the breeder got into contact with me.
     
  15. puppydog

    puppydog Tru evil has no pantyline

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    How old is the puppy and how long have you had him? Surely this is just a case of a young dog being unsure?

    I might be totally wrong as I don't know Filas at all. I do think he needs to get out of your home ASAP though. To me, he sounds lovely!
     
  16. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    I'm glad things got sorted and the little guy is back with his breeder.
    Sometimes things don't work out, and I hope he finds a lovely home with somebody who thinks he is perfect :)

    At least this is something you were honest with yourself about and dealt with early so the pup had a fighting chance at another home and not enough time to really get attached to you.

    It's really funny how people like different things in dogs. The kind of behavior you describe sounds really adorable to me lol I would love a puppy like that, I totally melt when it comes to puppy dog eyes
     
  17. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    This breaks my heart for the pup, Especially after what Renee has said about their devotion, reminds me of the phrase " the dog that loved too much." I'd suggest contacting a behaviorist but since he'll be back with his breeder I wish him the best. Poor kiddo!
     
  18. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    I wouldn't want a dog like that either Teal. I don't like any degree of uncertainty in any dog of any age. I want confidence from the get-go, I want a pup that you can rough around with and it will take it in the spirit you intended. If that clingyness is some special kind of devotion I don't want that either. I don't if I'd use the term independent simply for a dog that could stay by itself and wanted to explore the world.

    My shepherd was too clingy on walks when he was an 8 week old pup, not ideal but I'm not going to complain too much. He's GSD, not an "independent" dog but within a week was frolicking around a 15'-20' radius around me when we went out. That is about perfect to me. Confident but handler-oriented/a little clingy.

    Different strokes for different folks! I'm glad you've got it sorted :)
     
  19. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    He is in no way an insecure dog... he was insecure with the new environment when he first came home, for a week or two, but he is confident and outgoing now. Except, that he won't leave me alone! He has been here for several months, and he went from the two insecure weeks to about two-three weeks as a "normal" dog before his clinginess to me started escalating. It is to the point now that when I leave the crate room, he screams and throws himself against the crate. I can't put him outside alone, because he'll just lean on the door and whine. I've watched him from areas he can't see me from when he does this - he isn't stressing out like a dog with separation anxiety really, he is more just desperate to be with me. It's hard to explain LOL

    Adrianne - Don't think it isn't breaking my heart either. A huge part of me wanted to try to work it out simply for the sake of the poor dog's devotion... but in reality, that is not how things work.

    Fran - There was no issue with being honest with myself over it. The dog isn't working out, he isn't my type of dog. It's that simple.
     
  20. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Oh, when they are young they want to be with you all. the. time. You can't go into the bathroom without them following, and if you're quick enough with the door they sit outside and keen until you come out . . . These are dogs who will die for you and they really deserve that kind of commitment in return. Not everyone is up for that, and better you find out now than later.

    The bitches, while no less committed, have a bit more dignity about their demonstrations of devotion, especially when adolescence kicks in, lol. Males are shameless.
     

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