nicely put jules! 
as i said before, this forum is one BIG dysfunctional family...we have THOUSANDS of members, many of which are lurkers.
that many people all with different personal opinions, belifs ect theres boudn to be head butting...
BUT when things get out of line theres specific fetures in place to assist with "taking a breather"
and when things realy cross the lines we have rules in place. As mods we have no problem banning those who repeatedly break those rules, come here just to start trouble ect.
weve had members many of us LIKE that still end up banned or time outed because they break the rules.
are we on this forum the "normal" or "majority" for dog owners in the country...no...BUT as a whole that Majority is shifting.
people are seeing that just because a dog will eat alpo it does not mean its a GOOD food...just because that BYB has some "cute" puppies, it doesnt mean that its a good idea to support their practices.
just because currently declawing a cat is considered "ok" by many home owners...does NOT mean its the right first option.
we have a terribly MEAN cat. he will swipe at the dogs when cornered. He HATED most people, ect. hes flat out EVIL...(he was a feral kitten and we belive hes form some pretty messed up genetic background) he HAS his claws, hes an indoor cat, and he will NEEVR be sent to a shelter.
it takes more work for us as a family, we have to wait till hes sleeping and clip his claws doing it 1 paw at a time. if he decided hes done we stop, when he goes back to sleep we do a few more...ect. we have rooms gated off that the cat can get in that the dogs cant, and perches by windows where the cat can sit up away from the dogs and the dogs CANT get to him.
doing this we avoid incident, theres never been an issue, he knows he has escape routes and uses them as needed.
when he decides hes going to be a meanie WE ae the ones that have to be on our toes, a squirt bottle puts an end to it imediatly and he runs off to go entertain himself elsewhere.
we provide scratching posts and hes NEVER scratched the furniture. he took one swipe at vixie when he was younger BEFORE we realized that WE as the RESPONSIBLE HUMANS had to control their interactions. vixie is fine, no sight loss no perminent damage ect...
it just means WE have to be carefull.
wed rather make the extra effort to provide the cat with safe zones and keep his nails trimmed (even if that means it takes hours because we have to keep waiting for him to fall asleep) we find this a much better fix than removing his "finger tips" ...
which is all others have tried to say...
there ARE other SAFER options.
will all cats have issues after a declawing...NO...but there are issues that are well documented in a large enough number of declawed cases that has prompted many vets to decide NOT to declaw.
the issues CAN occur.
on the saint issue. saints are not "RUNNING" dogs. just because a breed doesnt make a good jogging partner does NOT mean its not a HIGH ENERGY DOG!
saints need ALOT of MENTAL stimulation. they are built for STAMINA not speed. just because a saint isnt going to want to run for 6 hours, doesnt mean its not going to want to HIKE for 6 hours.
as a breed they tend to be quiet in the house (IF PROPERLY EXCERSIZED) and then when its time to go there ready to take on the world. the breed was bred to WORK...
saints are in no way shape or form lazy dogs...sorry if that throws your entire world into a tizzy there...
thats like saying just because im fat im lazy...and i can assure you thats absolutly not the case...it just means when i have 10 mins to sit and relax i make the most of those 10 mins!
and if anyone on this forum had ever seriously said all small dogs were not "real" belive me...there would be an uprising...i have 5 SMALL dogs myself and youll notice ive been here for years...even better i have 5 small typically discriminated against breeds...3 chihuahuas, which we all know are evil yappy ankle biters..and 2 chinese cresteds, yup yuo know those UGLY things...
not on this forum however.
folks freely say THEY dont particularly like said breeds, they have their reasons not to like them...BUT the majority of members also wont dis you for having that breed IF they are raised properly.
now if you do have a chihuahua that is yappy and agressive youll get called on bad socilization, bad breeding and lack of training...YES...but noones going to whine about a well behaved ANY breed....
we do occasionally get members who like to go on that "youve got a chihuahua thats not a real breed" or "fluffy dogs are useless" kicks, but belive me, they get sorted out VERY quickly.
just like if same begins happening in reverse or attitudes arnt dropped and quick those issues too will be directly taken care of!
i also suggest many of the posters on this thread take the time to RE READ things BEFORE posting a reply, ive noticed reading this thread through that alot of people are not reading things through completly, jumping on 1 point of the entire post and disreguarding often important "IMO" points made afterwards.
in dekkas thread she said not ALL saints drool...this is a fact, while most well bred saints do have the mouth structure to be prone to drooling, i have met a couple of saints that are NOT drool offenders.
however crush decided "not all" meant NONE...thats not how it works...READ the words put infront of you...not all means not all...plain and simple.
dekka said saints are an ACTIVE breed...and thats absolutly true...but the op decided just because the breed isnt a jogging companion its LAZY...dekka never said the breed is a good choice for someone looking for a jogging partner...just that saying the breed is lazy is infact FALSE. the breed needs alot of excersize...just not nessicarily in the form of jogging!
READ whats written.
when stating an opinion state it as such...if you have to add IMO to everything do so...
if someone asks for details on a breed...
instead of saying
the breed drools and is lazy
say
the breed TENDS to be drooly and while is usually quiet in the home still needs quite a bit of excersize and mental stimulation.
now if this thread is just going to continue to be a back and forth cat fight i dont see much reason to keep it open...
as i said before, this forum is one BIG dysfunctional family...we have THOUSANDS of members, many of which are lurkers.
that many people all with different personal opinions, belifs ect theres boudn to be head butting...
BUT when things get out of line theres specific fetures in place to assist with "taking a breather"
and when things realy cross the lines we have rules in place. As mods we have no problem banning those who repeatedly break those rules, come here just to start trouble ect.
weve had members many of us LIKE that still end up banned or time outed because they break the rules.
are we on this forum the "normal" or "majority" for dog owners in the country...no...BUT as a whole that Majority is shifting.
people are seeing that just because a dog will eat alpo it does not mean its a GOOD food...just because that BYB has some "cute" puppies, it doesnt mean that its a good idea to support their practices.
just because currently declawing a cat is considered "ok" by many home owners...does NOT mean its the right first option.
we have a terribly MEAN cat. he will swipe at the dogs when cornered. He HATED most people, ect. hes flat out EVIL...(he was a feral kitten and we belive hes form some pretty messed up genetic background) he HAS his claws, hes an indoor cat, and he will NEEVR be sent to a shelter.
it takes more work for us as a family, we have to wait till hes sleeping and clip his claws doing it 1 paw at a time. if he decided hes done we stop, when he goes back to sleep we do a few more...ect. we have rooms gated off that the cat can get in that the dogs cant, and perches by windows where the cat can sit up away from the dogs and the dogs CANT get to him.
doing this we avoid incident, theres never been an issue, he knows he has escape routes and uses them as needed.
when he decides hes going to be a meanie WE ae the ones that have to be on our toes, a squirt bottle puts an end to it imediatly and he runs off to go entertain himself elsewhere.
we provide scratching posts and hes NEVER scratched the furniture. he took one swipe at vixie when he was younger BEFORE we realized that WE as the RESPONSIBLE HUMANS had to control their interactions. vixie is fine, no sight loss no perminent damage ect...
it just means WE have to be carefull.
wed rather make the extra effort to provide the cat with safe zones and keep his nails trimmed (even if that means it takes hours because we have to keep waiting for him to fall asleep) we find this a much better fix than removing his "finger tips" ...
which is all others have tried to say...
there ARE other SAFER options.
will all cats have issues after a declawing...NO...but there are issues that are well documented in a large enough number of declawed cases that has prompted many vets to decide NOT to declaw.
the issues CAN occur.
on the saint issue. saints are not "RUNNING" dogs. just because a breed doesnt make a good jogging partner does NOT mean its not a HIGH ENERGY DOG!
saints need ALOT of MENTAL stimulation. they are built for STAMINA not speed. just because a saint isnt going to want to run for 6 hours, doesnt mean its not going to want to HIKE for 6 hours.
as a breed they tend to be quiet in the house (IF PROPERLY EXCERSIZED) and then when its time to go there ready to take on the world. the breed was bred to WORK...
saints are in no way shape or form lazy dogs...sorry if that throws your entire world into a tizzy there...
thats like saying just because im fat im lazy...and i can assure you thats absolutly not the case...it just means when i have 10 mins to sit and relax i make the most of those 10 mins!
and if anyone on this forum had ever seriously said all small dogs were not "real" belive me...there would be an uprising...i have 5 SMALL dogs myself and youll notice ive been here for years...even better i have 5 small typically discriminated against breeds...3 chihuahuas, which we all know are evil yappy ankle biters..and 2 chinese cresteds, yup yuo know those UGLY things...
not on this forum however.
folks freely say THEY dont particularly like said breeds, they have their reasons not to like them...BUT the majority of members also wont dis you for having that breed IF they are raised properly.
now if you do have a chihuahua that is yappy and agressive youll get called on bad socilization, bad breeding and lack of training...YES...but noones going to whine about a well behaved ANY breed....
we do occasionally get members who like to go on that "youve got a chihuahua thats not a real breed" or "fluffy dogs are useless" kicks, but belive me, they get sorted out VERY quickly.
just like if same begins happening in reverse or attitudes arnt dropped and quick those issues too will be directly taken care of!
i also suggest many of the posters on this thread take the time to RE READ things BEFORE posting a reply, ive noticed reading this thread through that alot of people are not reading things through completly, jumping on 1 point of the entire post and disreguarding often important "IMO" points made afterwards.
in dekkas thread she said not ALL saints drool...this is a fact, while most well bred saints do have the mouth structure to be prone to drooling, i have met a couple of saints that are NOT drool offenders.
however crush decided "not all" meant NONE...thats not how it works...READ the words put infront of you...not all means not all...plain and simple.
dekka said saints are an ACTIVE breed...and thats absolutly true...but the op decided just because the breed isnt a jogging companion its LAZY...dekka never said the breed is a good choice for someone looking for a jogging partner...just that saying the breed is lazy is infact FALSE. the breed needs alot of excersize...just not nessicarily in the form of jogging!
READ whats written.
when stating an opinion state it as such...if you have to add IMO to everything do so...
if someone asks for details on a breed...
instead of saying
the breed drools and is lazy
say
the breed TENDS to be drooly and while is usually quiet in the home still needs quite a bit of excersize and mental stimulation.
now if this thread is just going to continue to be a back and forth cat fight i dont see much reason to keep it open...