Remote retrieve demonstration with GSD

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by StephyMei1112, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. StephyMei1112

    StephyMei1112 Blackout

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    Just came across this video (the dog in it is now retired and belongs to my current trainer). I've not much idea what they are doing in it but the hand in the GSD's mouth is abit...erm...I don't get the point. I thought I'd just share it for everyone's thoughts and those whom are in very active and intense training programs could see what they thought.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6718981345297387626

    Opinions? I've never heard of Fred Hassen before either
     
  2. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    Sit mean Sit just like to put shock collars on all of the dogs they train. I remember a video of a dog who was scared of visitors and would run and hide so they slapped a shock collar on that dog too. They also seem to love that they can get their dogs to stand on perches for some reason. I assume they are putting the hand in the mouth for two reasons. One so that they can feel if the dog is mouthing the object, which is not wanted, and two so they can better force the dog to keep it in the mouth, if the dog resists the guy can fight to keep his hand in there. Zapping the dog for no reason seems pretty stupid to me, I still don't get what they are trying to accomplish with that, except confusing the heck out of the poor dog. At first he said something about proofing the dog...so maybe holding on despite discomfort/pain? But then he said something about making the collar a positive thing...which makes no sense, they use the collar as a punishment device.
     
  3. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    I"m glad you mentioned the name, now I don't have to waste time watching it
     
  4. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    good grief, what a waste of time. Should have taken RTH's lead. Is he suppose to be some kind of pro??? If so he really should start with not repeating the sit commend all the time lol. Never ever impressed when someone's dog is looking for the second they can leave them. Interesting that he had to have a leash on the dog or it would have left in a heartbeat.
     
  5. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    Oh my god... I HATE Sit Means Sit. *shudders* I see those morons at this local dog park constantly, with various aggressive dogs slinking around getting shocked almost non-stop and causing fights. I want to punch them in the neck. D:<

    That poor Sheppy, his stress signals are through the roof. I wanna hug him.
     
  6. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    I hate them too. I've met quite a few dogs "trained" by them that were so shut down they wouldn't even look at or interact with their owners at all.

    The ones that could take it so to speak of course only behaved when the collars were on. I met a couple of those a few times.

    My vet actually recommended them to me as "behaviorists" when I asked about putting Scout meds. I was pretty polite, but I still think I scared the little receptionist girl with my oh hell no! :rolleyes:

    I'm still really upset about and considering changing vet hostpital's over it. What if it'd been some unknowing pet owner who thought they were doing good for their dog? Omfg, what that would do to a dog like Scout utterly horrifies me...

    I want to put that GSD in my pocket and take him home. He's being so sweet trying to placate that man with calming signals. Sigh.
     
  7. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Scary isn't it, just not the training, but the fact that vet's and staff at vet clinics recommend these kinds of trainers. Amazing how many vet's give out training advice when asked when so many of them have had very little if any knowledge on training dogs/ methods etc.
     
  8. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Quit your bitching, YOU people don't live 20 minutes from him and see him at most every dog event.

    Punks.

    ;)
     
  9. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    How did you get so lucky :)
     
  10. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    "Remote retreive" in this house means the dog gets up and get the TV/Roku remote and brings it to me ;)

    I started the video, saw him yank the dog around and start to jabber about an e-collar, and closed it.
     
  11. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    \

    lol, sooooooo just how does his dogs do at those events?
     
  12. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I saw him at a dog expo with a Malinois wearing a shock collar and being actively shocked, just sitting by his booth!!! The dog was so miserable and uncomfortable, ears back, shivering. He refused to leash the dog even though he was asked and it was a mandatory rule for the expo. I heard him telling some people who stopped at the booth "They want me to leash MY DOG! Because their dogs aren't trained well enough to be off leash!" :( Ok buddy. I'm real impressed by that poor shutdown dog.

    I was doing a flyball demo there, and our team leader/trainer went over and cussed him out. It was good stuff.
     
  13. StephyMei1112

    StephyMei1112 Blackout

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    I'll ask my trainer about that video when she gets back from holidays...

    Saint (the dog) is really sweet and super social. He's beautiful and has a really huge head; from Czech working lines. He's 11 now and my trainer doesn't compete with him or take him out to do trials any longer.
     
  14. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Haha, I would love to see that. What did he do?
     
  15. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I guarantee he did the same thing Fred always does, grins, grumbles, and moves on. Trust me, he's been attacked a lot in the past 10 years of SMS.

    If you want real entertainment go to Workingdogforum and search the company name.

    He does DD here but elsewise he just attends events and does not compete. He's not in dogs for competition, just the business of them. His labs are actually pretty impressive, his new pup coal is beautiful, but any dog that takes what he gives and isn't shut down impresses me. Coal was on an ecollar at 8 weeks when his wife and I were on the same FB team.

    Its more of his other trainers who compete around here in DDs that keep a lot of us laughing. I have no problem with ecollars in training but when that is all you use and you're using it as an avoidance tool the dog is dumb without the collar because of its near constant use by SMS theory.

    Many of them get up on the dock an have to re-sit their dogs 10 times more often than the average pet owner. Some are impressive, Baxter (Tonys dog) & Yaeger (Dave's dog), but some make the rest of us feel pretty smug in our training skills.

    I get a lot of retrains for SMS at my work because their international head quarters and founders reside here. Many clients have decided its too cruel or too unreliable and they take off the collar to find not only a dog with no manners but a dog with an extremely high correction threshold, it really complicates things to an annoying degree.

    I wish they weren't so huge, I wish they didn't sponsor Las Vegas Dock Dogs but we do find some dark comedy watching them try to control their dogs when forced to remove their collars on the competition dock.
     
  16. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    SMS is a franchise started by Fred Hassen but now all across the country. This is the one closest to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t81SxomzAHs&feature=related

    And more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XouMdcurMiQ&feature=relmfu

    The thing that gets me is that they always, always have the e-collars on the dog and remote in hand during all their "look how awesomely trained these dogs are" videos. Some people object to training with food because they are worried about always having to have it on them. How are they convincing pet owners they must live with remote in hand 24/7...forever? Funny thing about the videos I posted is that they were shot at different expos at the IX Center - a place where there is a huge, well attended by the public dog show every December. But SMS can't come to the dog show because their dogs have to wear e-collars and e-collars aren't allowed at the dog show.

    I am curious how Hassen's dog does in competitions. He actually takes the e-collar off and sets down the remote occasionally?!

    ETA: Posting the same time you were Adrianne! Interesting.
     
  17. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Lol we joke it's surgically attached to his hand. Again it's morbid humor but at ISE in Vegas last winter we watched a trainer sans dog walking with a remote in his hand and we swore we saw some flinching of the thumb as if it felt unnatural to not be clicking it.

    Truth is, and they make no lies about it, it's a very quick and effective way to train. Then again people don't grasp for some reason that you will always need a shocky box to keep the peace. It impresses me, sadly, that people will debate our costs sometimes and yet the gal I used to train with bought an SMS and is now supposedly turning over 200k a year between her and her boyfriend in training and collar sales.

    The things that get me are the collars (duh) they use sport dog collars which suck. They also use 1 size fits all unless they've changed recently, so I've seen paps with boxes as big as their heads hanging off the neck. And lastly, they move to the belly/groin when the neck is no longer sensitive enough. At that point buddy, you're a schmuck.
     
  18. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    I saw these comments posted and the words sit Means Sit that makes me sick. That's why I said what I did in the thread about taking training advice from vets. I have seen and heard so manydumb recommendations. And dumb books in their waiting rooms I could pull my hair out grrr
     
  19. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    There really ought to be a law it's mistreatment animal abuse I hate that those poor dogs

    Sorry...on cell phone
     
  20. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I don't believe the use of ecollars is abuse, I would fight that law tooth and nail. That said, I do agree their training methods are not humane.

    The best option is education, we employ this all the time and while SMS still makes plenty of money we have turned many clients to the "bright side" through examples of our dogs and their own. Truth is without clients they wouldn't be where they are.
     

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