Range of motion issue

Discussion in 'Dog Health Care' started by DJEtzel, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    He doesn't "weave" he just got macaroni weaves together and he will walk back and forth between them now. No speed, no pressure, supervised by an agility trainer. It's all clicker trained and just a flat command for him, currently. And this has been worked on all of three times, it is certainly not causing a lack of range of motion in his wrist when there's no impact, and to imply that it is, is completely insulting.

    Eta; there is a huge difference between running down open weaves (which he had been doing up until that post!)/walking in and out using reverse luring down a 6 set, and a finished "weave" which is not something we could have accomplished by now that would injure him if we tried. Which we haven't. Our trainer recommends to get motion down starting at 8/9 months and leave it until a year then start building drive and speed to get the real "weave" motion down.
     
  2. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    What would you look for in a vet like this? I'm pretty sure I have none in the area, I've tried out most of the vets in town, and I'm not sure how to find them elsewhere?
     
  3. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    Was going to suggest this as well.

    Generally sports vets have a specialty in orthopedic surgery and rehab.

    There is a group here that would be a good start:
    http://www.acsma.org/
     
  4. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    Guh. An hour and 20 minutes is the closest. It's not *too* bad, but there's no way I can afford that right now. Maybe I will contact the two closest and ask if they can recommend anyone closer. Thanks for the link!
     
  5. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    http://www.rehabvets.org/

    Here's another place you can check. I found my vet through recommendations of local agility people, but they are also listed here.

    With my dogs now, I'd much prefer to spend the money on a vet who knows and understands what I'm dealing with, than to go to a regular vet first, mess around with stuff, and not be satisfied. Especially since you are considering that this may be a career-changing issue for a very young dog. The rehab vet was able to take into consideration things like Gusto's weaving style and his method of contacts when planning out his recovery.
     
  6. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    You have posted several times about him doing full sized frames, posted a vid of him running long sequences.

    Your trainers advice goes against what the pro's (trainers/world champs and sports vets) strongly state, if running and training pups at 4-5 months of age was ok, they would be doing it. Instead of advising against it.

    Do your own research on puppies, agility (or any dog sports for that matter), growth plates, it isn't an opinion, it is a well researched fact.
     
  7. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I know it sucks but crate rest literally means no exercise. Do some eye contact work or shape ear flicks, etc, stuff that takes no movement if he's losing it.
     
  8. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    I've used Laser therapy on LoLa. While I did not notice a big difference, very slight, it did help. Chiropractic does help her a little bit as well. Also, I have found joint supplements to be a lifesaver with her issues. The Nupro Joint Support and Hyalogic #3 is what helps her the most and the Coconut oil. Any dog that gets gimpy here gets those supplements upped or added(if they're not on them.). They work really well.

    Remember puppies are growing and undue stress on joints can create long lasting problems.
     
  9. Julee

    Julee UNSTOPPABLE

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    :hail:
     
  10. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    Well, back from the vet. We did a couple of angles on films and the vet couldn't find anything wrong with him. Looking at him and examining him, she could tell something was wrong because of the lack of range of motion and his stance, but nothing showed on the xrays. No fractures, no compressed tendons, no growth plate issues, no joint issues, no soft tissue issues.

    The vet really has no clue what's going on, but did not recommend crate rest or think that is was necessary. So no, I did not kill my dog by letting him chase a ball yesterday. She referred us to MSU where we're going next week for an MRI or scan after consultation, which she said could really be done anytime before we want to continue agility (up bars at a year and contacts) unless he gets worse and starts constantly limping or crying out. Our previcox plan is fine for her, and she did talk about long-term nsaids. We probably won't be able to go for off leash hikes anymore, according to her, but I think it is still a little early in the game to tell.

    She said to keep him active as usual and to keep going to agility unless he's showing signs of pain afterwards. Because it's broken up so much into 2 minutes here/2 minutes there, she doesn't think it's bothering him at all and is no concern the way we are currently training as there's no stress she can see on him. She's worried that making him rest is going to put him back at square one and wants him to keep using the leg in light activity to keep range of motion THERE at least, and showed me range of motion exercises to do with him.

    I guess I just hit the jackpot with mystery dogs. Frag went lame with excruciating pain for almost a week last year in his hind end, we saw a chiropractor along with getting almost 6 x rays done on his legs, hips, and back and found nothing, and it never happened again. Sir had his eyes swelled shut for two days for apparently no reason last fall. :/

    I went back and looked at all of my posts to see where you could have read that or what you might be misunderstanding. I could not find a single post about him doing full sized anythings. I cannot recall a single time he has run full sized anythings, besides the teeter. He has been introduced to the frame and dog walk in one class period, on leash, being lured, and showed he didn't have the coordination to even be on them, so we stopped. (and that was at 8 months) The only thing he's on is the teeter starting last month and that's also being lured while I hold it and slowly lower it to get him used to the movement. The weaving is all open except for my post from a week ago where I chained him walking through six poles. At nine months old, he did indeed walk around 6 poles. He's jumped through a tire twice, and does chutes and tunnels regularly with very low jumps.

    Yes, he runs sequences and does drills, at the appropriate height and the appropriate skill level. He doesn't run full courses, and he's still not having any rough impact. The only video you've seen of what I can imagine you think is a "long sequence" is three jumps and two tunnels, IIRC. Then there's a jump/tunnel/weave... and I think that's it? Not sure what you're basing your remarks on, really, but my trainers have decades of experience, one is an AKC agility Judge, and the other was supposed to go to nationals this year, and my vet is totally ok with it, so I think there must be some miscommunication somewhere along the line and I'm going to refer to the people that SEE us train and know what they are doing over you, thank you.
     
  11. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

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    I have to say that my regular vet also had no idea what was wrong with my dog and said she could do whatever she felt comfortable doing.

    I took her to our local rehab vet where she was diagnosed with a strained right quadricep.

    Worth her weight in gold eight hundred million times over. I was travelling an hour plus to see her twice a week in the beginning. Now we see her as needed and live about five minutes from the office! :)

    Undiagnosed lameness without a treatment plan can cause a lot of long term problems, which you've heard over and over again.
     
  12. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    Yes, I agree with this.

    Our dogs cannot talk, they can't tell us "on a scale of 1-10 how bad does this hurt?" And drivey working dogs will continue to work through pain. Auggie continued running agility (and Qing) with six bladder stones rolling around in his belly, wrestling with his brand new baby brother, and the only sign of distress he ever gave me at all was that he started peeing in the house. If I said "go" he would still go. That does NOT mean he wasn't in pain.

    Because the vet did not see anything on the x-rays does not mean there is no problem. A stress fracture is RARELY picked up on an x-ray and often can only be indicated by MRI. However they can be very, very painful and if not treated (with rest) can become an acute fracture and can cause pain even with no activity at all.

    I strongly strongly recommend you at the very least get that MRI as soon as possible.
     
  13. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    Like I said, we are planning on going next week to get it figured out at MSU, because we realize there IS obviously something wrong.
     
  14. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    You're seriously not going to rest a dog with a limp?
     
  15. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    No, the vet said that I didn't have to, but I am still going to rest him, just not as much to keep him moving on it, as she suggested. Again, he does not have a limp or he would absolutely keep resting.
     
  16. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Vet or not common sense says injury is followed by rest and then rehab.

    It's your dog but wow, scary.
     
  17. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    This, especially in a dog showing lameness over time at this young an age.
     
  18. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    I was extremely shocked by the answer, as well. I understand why she wants to keep movement though, as she thinks there is a tension that is getting worse with inactivity similar to arthritis? I'm by no means going to make him chase a ball or frisbee, but I think resting it did seem to make it worse so I will let him walk around and take him out for short visits that do not have a reason to harm him, in the days leading up to his MSU visit where we will figure out exactly what is going on hopefully.
     
  19. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    You can crate rest and do range of motion rehab.
     
  20. DJEtzel

    DJEtzel New Member

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    That is true. I guess I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place here trying to decide which would be better. I had rested him doing the same exercises for 6+ days with no limping and he took ten trots outside and limped twice...

    *sigh*
     

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