Question for the breeders

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Laurelin, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Do you guys know any good reading material (books or articles) about breeding for those interested in breeding responsibly?

    Don't worry, I've got 5-6 years before I can even start to seriously think of that.
     
  2. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Sure do!!

    One of the best websites out there for anyone considering breeding is Breeding Better Dogs tons of excellent information.

    There are several excellent books on whelping, raising pups etc, but if your not planning on doing it soon, I would wait and get the latest and best books to purchase.

    The Puppy Puzzle is also excellent (DVD) lots of good info there on conformtion, structure and movement.

    Also anything by Dr. Hutchson he is the leading repo Vet out there.
     
  3. Boemy

    Boemy New Member

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    I don't have any useful suggestions, but I'll bet you'd be a great breeder. You obviously know a ton about papillons already and have ties to the pap showing community. :)
     
  4. Vintage Boxers

    Vintage Boxers Boxer Buddy

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    I agree about The Puppy Puzzle!!!

    i also find that just going to the library and reading anything you can get your hands on is good. Hook up with a breeder near you and follow them through the whole process, from coming in heat to breeding, care of the bitch and whelping. Then as they grow! Books and learning from them is wonderful BUT being able to see and be involved UNDER the GUIDANCE of a RESPONSIBLE breeder gets u that first hand knowledge. Also watch for Carmen Battaglia seminars!!!

    (the caps are for the people that will think i said go breed its the only way to learn....when it is def. NOT what i mean!)

    Good Luck!!
     
  5. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Thanks a lot for the links and ideas! I have a few breeders off the top of my head whom I can work with.

    I want to make sure I do it right but I can see there is a big need for more good breeders of my breed. We have a long ways to go, especially when it comes to health testing which is still sadly not the norm for breeders.
     
  6. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    " Raising A Puppy You Can Live With " was my breeding Bible !
     
  7. husky hijinx

    husky hijinx New Member

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    I'd suggest "The Book of The Bitch" by JM Evans and Kay White, that should be everyone's #1 book if you have a bitch you are planning on breeding. There is info from raising your breeding bitch to sending off the puppies.

    "Control Of Canine Genetic Disease" by George Padgett is another good read. Genetics An Introduction For Dog Breeders by Jackie Isabell is great, but it can be somewhat tedious for those who aren't genetics obsessed like me. My husband read about 6 pages and fell asleep. :rolleyes:

    One of the more important parts I think, before you even start to think about breeding is training your eye and learning to be honest with yourself about your dogs strengths and weaknesses. I'd suggest "K-9 Structure & Terminology" by Edward Gilbert Jr. and "An Eye For a Dog: Illustrated Guide to Judging Purebred Dogs" by Robert Cole. And, the "Dog Steps: What to Look For in A Dog" DVD. It is more complicated than the title portrays, it mostly covers how even the slightest deviations in conformation can affect not only the dogs movement, but health. It uses xrays, both still and moving to show you the inner workings of the dog while it moves.

    Other book on my shelf:
    "Solving The Mysteries of Breed Type" by Richard Beauchamp
    "Trick of The Trade: From Best Intentions to Best in Show" by Pat Hastings
    "The Joy of Breeding Your Own Show Dog" by Anne Seranne
    "Another Piece of The Puzzle: Puppy Development" by Pat Hastings
    "Dog Breeders Professional Secrets: Ethical Breeding Practices" by Sylvia Smart
    I used to have a bunch more, but I've since passed them on to friends and it's so late the names are escaping me.

    I would also suggest, going to the AKC site and applying for an events mentor. Even if you are not going to show your own dog, you should have a working knowledge of how to handle a dog incase your handler fudges up and can't take your dog in their class at a show. Also, their mentor program can open up more doors to the community and with the right person turn into a breeding mentor-ship, giving you a "behind the scenes" view. My mentor through them was not even someone within my own breed, however I have my breeder to go back to for Sibe specific stuff, which actually IMO makes my mentor friendlier toward me since competition is not there. I've heard tons of horror stories about mentors gone wrong, and I really think if you have people within your own breed to go to for breed specific advice, sometimes you're better off finding an ally outside of your breed.
     
  8. Vintage Boxers

    Vintage Boxers Boxer Buddy

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    **APPLAUSE** Great response Husky !!!
     
  9. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Ditto!! ^^^
     
  10. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    thanks for that! :)
     
  11. BleuButterfly

    BleuButterfly Papillon Fancier

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    I really like:
    The Puppy Puzzel book and DVD

    Dogsteps dvd and book (I believe there is a new revised edition out now. Dont have it yet..),

    The Joy Of Breeding Your Own Show Dog (A must have! Talks tons about reading pedigrees/ linebreeding, outcrossing, etc. & much more. Plus, Kirby is on the front cover. ;) )

    I also have: Tricks Of The Trade (revised edition), Best In Show The World Of Show Dogs and Dog Shows, Positive Training For Show Dogs, Raising a Champion (pretty basic info, but great book), Breeding Dogs To Win (Met author and got a signed copy. :) Great book, lots of health testing info.), An Eye For A Dog ( A+ book on judging)

    I hope to get the new revised 2nd addition book entitled "Born To Win: Breed To Succeed" by Patricia Craige a very successful owner handler.

    I also am highly interested in: Solving The Mysteries Of Breed Type, Annie On Dogs, and Dog Breeding As A Fine Art.

    You can find all of these on dogwise. You probably already know that though.

    Hey, Laurelin, what lines are your paps out of? River was bred by Carolyn Mills of Ken Mar. Mostly American stock behind her (LOVE it.) River was a 1/2 brother 1/2 sister breeding being linebred on CH SOD Ken Mar Party On A Wave. River's great aunt, CH Loteki Beach Party and her great uncle CH Loteki Good Time Charlie both won multiple times @ Westminster. Bikini is still winning in the Veterans class @ the nationals. :)

    River is related to Kirby, by way of Ch DOD Loteki Autumn Magic (top producing female of all time.)

    Laurelin, your paps are so pretty. I have been showing for a year now.
     
  12. SisMorphine

    SisMorphine Your Mom

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    I have an email into my friend to ask him the name of the book he's always used. For me the BEST part about reading that book was that he had made notes all in it regarding breedings that were done years ago, that were extremely important to the breed. So yeah, the book was fantastic, but the historical sidenotes were even better :)
     
  13. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Thanks guys! I have lots of reading to do but lots of time to do it. :)

    Mine come from all over, mostly American and English which are also my favorite lines for a variety of reasons. Nard is 3/4 Queen Bless though and they all have a scattering of Swedish and such lines too. Mia is related to River through Ken Mar Party on a Wave btw. He's Mia's great grandfather.

    I'll pm you in a little bit. ;)
     
  14. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    One thing I would do if you can is really get a good understanding of genetics. CURRENT understanding.

    Most breeders have a passing understanding of punnett squares and Mendel. But I think a better understanding of what goes on, how many traits are genotypically vs phenotypically expressed is very important (not hard to deduce if you watch what other breeders are breeding and producing)

    When I am done school (when ever that may be lol) I would love to give talks about genetics and how things work to breeder groups. I hear so much misinformation when hanging around shows it drives me insane. Often they are close to having things right.. but just not quite there.
     
  15. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I took quite a few genetics classes (I was a gene major for two years). I would love to learn more abut it in dogs. Do you know any good reading to be done on the subject?
     
  16. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    not really. There are some interesting journal articles coming out these days. But not enough, and not on some of the things that really matter.

    Stay current if you can. Your schooling will likely help you more than most of those books.

    For example. Bone is one of the first things to go in badly bred dogs of many breeds. I see how hard it is to get bone back once lost in lines. Therefore I can assume that when choosing a LHW mate for Bounce I will over look size to get bone. Excess size, whilst a problem, is easier to 'fix' than lack of bone. Bone is likely multi allelic and somewhat recessive.

    But talking to breeders about Bill (Bounce's betrothed) they constantly comment on the fact he is over standard in height. So far he is the ONLY LHW with really good bone... (and there are other factors) So he is the planned dad.

    So basically what I am saying is if you can apply your understanding of advanced genetics to what you are observing in your breed then you will be able to make better decsions and be able to produce what you want.. vs crossing nice dogs and hoping.
     

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