Puppy Mill?

[JennSLK]

What do you guys think???

No I am not considering a GSD so dont even go there. I just came across the website doing a general search. They have alot of pups planned this year.

http://mittelwest.com/index.htm

 

[makenzie71]

Well...from what I've learned from this forum regarding such things is that:

Breeders who advertise online are byb's.
Breeders who advertise online are only after your money.
Breeders who advertise online do not really care about the dogs.
Breeders who advertise at all are byb's.

All of which is total nonsense...

Those guys look like a good bunch of people, the dogs look very healthy and cared for, and their site is constructed really well. I see nothing wrong with them.

 

[JennSLK]

I see nothing wrong with them

9 litters due this year.

 

[makenzie71]

They may have a dozen breeding pairs.

They have 9 adults for sale currently.

They have 19 breeding females.

 

[makenzie71]

Jenn, also if you explore their site, they cater to police services, S&R services, therapy services as well as breed show-quality and "pet" dogs. Their facillity is also rather large.

 

[JennSLK]

Yes it is large I just dont see how you can give quality attention to that many dogs/puppies

 

[makenzie71]

Staffing...there's a lot of people who work there...

 

[JennSLK]

Does anyone ELSE have an opinion?

 

[corsomom]

9 litters between Jan. and April? I see no reason to produce that many pups. Just becouse someones website looks good or the dogs look healthy means nothing. Did you see health testing?

 

[AusCatDogs_4Ever]

9 litters between Jan. and April? I see no reason to produce that many pups. Just becouse someones website looks good or the dogs look healthy means nothing. Did you see health testing?

I agree with corsomom, just because they have a good looking website, doesn't mean they are responsible breeders. I am not saying they aren't, you need to find more info on these people. Do they show? Do the dogs have a pedigree? And what about the health testing?

 

[Fran27]

Frankly, I don't like breeders who breed so much a year. Yes, they might just have lots of people working with them, but a good breeder should breed to improve a breed... not sell 80 puppies a year. Seeing how overbred GSDs are, I just think it's wrong, and IMO a good breeder should only breed when they have enough puppies reserved.

I didn't see any mention of OFA/CERF testing either.

Breeders who advertise online are byb's.
Breeders who advertise online are only after your money.
Breeders who advertise online do not really care about the dogs.
Breeders who advertise at all are byb's.

I don't think anyone ever said such a thing. You'll find lots of good breeders who have an online website - but that's totally different from advertising with such sites as puppy.com etc.

 

[J's crew]

ANYONE that breeds that many litters a year is doing it purely for the money. When looking for a puppy I want a breeder who is doing it to improve the breed, not line their pockets. That many puppies screams "puppymill" to me.

 

[doberkim]

They may have a dozen breeding pairs.

They have 9 adults for sale currently.

They have 19 breeding females.

and thats ok?
we need that many GSDs breeding?

 

[Serena]

Going by the website alone my main concern with this breeder is the amount of litters they are producing.

Thus far for the year this is what they have bred or have scheduled to be bred:

Two in January
Two in February
Two in March
Three in April

That 9 litters, if their breeding continues in that pattern for the remainder of the year that is approximately 24 litters a year.

No breeder needs produce that many litters a year.

Another concern is that I could not locate any information on genetic health clearances and test results...The contract they have listed was shaky and I would have liked to see a spay/neuter agreement. I would also have liked it to be more specific.

Now on the other hand they have many show wins under their names, and one of their dogs also just was titled Universal Seiger, however I have also heard they have many dogs that fail at bitework during every show.

So are they responsible breeders or not? It depends on who you ask, Mittelwest has received a lot of praise from some individuals very well respected in the breed.

What do I think of them?

I think they have some very nice dogs, but I think they over breeding and their program is more about quantity than quality...so I personally would not touch them or thier dogs with a ten foot pole.

When that happens (priority becomes quanity rather than quality) in a breeding program ethics are sacrificed.

When ethics are sacrificed it doesn't matter if everything you breed goes out and wins BIS at Westminster...you become an irresponsible breeder.

Every responsible breeder shows their dogs in some way or another but not all breeders that show are responsible.

 

[bubbatd]

Too many litters for me.......... smells like a Mill .

 

[doberkim]

Breeders who advertise online are byb's.
Breeders who advertise online are only after your money.
Breeders who advertise online do not really care about the dogs.
Breeders who advertise at all are byb's.

i dont think anyone said this, but if they did, i would disagree.

i know many responsible breeders that i consider ethical and doing right by the breed, who do advertise. what i DONT think, is that just because someone has a nice fancy site that SAYS all the right things, that the breeder is truly what they seem. a nice website can often blind some people, and i can think within my breed (dobes) of at least 2-3 extremely high volume breeders who have very fancy websites - but their quality is limited, their titling is next to none, healthy testing is something they havent heard of -- but the fancy site, the nice pics, and the words they use to get out of the real issues, fool many people.

no, many good breeders dont need to advertise online - i know many breeders who breed very seldomly and the litter never makes it to advertising stages - because the litter is (rightfully so) placed before the pups are even born - theres a huge waiting list.

what i DONT think, is that good breeders advertise on buybelowcost.com, other online puppy dealing sites, etc. good breeders dont need to hawk their puppies on every website online that offers 10002 breeds available, simply if you have the paypal account or credit card that can charge.

good breeders evaluate their purchasers - make their puppy buyers PROVE they are worthy to own a dog from their litter. good breeders may or may not advertise, but good breeders breed to better the breed.

 

[stevinski]

btw where is redyrerots cause she would have explained here??????

their quite obviously in it for the money and how do you know they arent lying?

 

[corsomom]

I think Serena explained it perfectly.

 

[corsomom]

Oh, I am wondering where Red is too, hope everything is okay.

 

[Mordy]

If you want a dog that is going to live mainly in a kennel and is used as a working dog or a piece of "sport equipment" (some people seem to see it that way), fine.

I wouldn't recommend getting a dog from a commercial kennel like that to anyone who wants a companion that will be suited to living in the house in a family setting.