puppy biting

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by i'm_sofa_king, Jan 7, 2005.

  1. i'm_sofa_king

    i'm_sofa_king New Member

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    ok, how do you get a puppy to stop biting? our little Shih Tzu thinks we are chew toys. we tell him "no" but that just gets him all excited. we try to ignore him but he just bites even more. he's also started to growl and try to snap at us when we pick him up. we always hold him and tell him the be quiet, and when his is we let him down. he plays with our cat, and eventually the cat will get fed up with him and attak him. as soon as the cat lets him up, he's right back at him for more. its like he doesnt get it, or maybe he's just really playful. we try to play with him as much as we can. iread somewhere that Shuh Tzus are ahrd to train, but this is rediculous.
     
  2. Short_Stack

    Short_Stack New Member

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    when he starts chewing on you grab his bottom teeth and tell him no in a deep voice try this? might help ? alpha roll him mabe?
     
  3. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    When he starts that growling and snapping business put him in the bathroom and shut the door for awhile. It doesn't have to be very long, 10 minutes or so will usually do the trick. There is no worse punishment for a puppy than being alone, ignored and kept away from the fun everyone else is having. The cat's got the right idea!

    As for the biting you when he plays, tell him 'No' then give him a toy he likes to chew on and when he takes the toy and starts gnawing on it lets him know he's a good boy.
     
  4. Desteny

    Desteny Save a life: Rescue

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    Ugh..we were having the same problem with our pup, Sunny. A big problem with punishment was that she would wet herself when she was left alone (right after we got her from the shelter). We found that either grabbing her jaw or closing her mouth and telling her "NO" in a stern voice worked well. She rarely bites now...and when she does, she is reprimanded. Hope that helps!
     
  5. dogsrmylife86

    dogsrmylife86 Allison&Ginger

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    never put your pupl down when he growls or bites at you! he'll say hey! all i have to do is growl or bite and i can get my way! i must be alpha dog here! when he does this, spread your fingers out lick a claw and gently use your "claw" like a mouth and "bite" him on the shoulder, you can do this on the ground too. this mouth acts like another dog putting him in his place. you can also take your mouth and lpace it on the tip of your dog's snout (a little weird, but it works.) another thing is to roll him on his belly and proudly stand on all fours over him with your hand biting him on the ground with his belly up. another *softer* way just to remind him you're dominant is to get on all fours and place one hand (curled under like a paw) on his shoulder.

    all this will help establish dominance

    allison
     
  6. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    You can also just abruptly walk away and ignore him for about 10 minutes. They won't want to stop there fun and games and will have to learn to play nicely.
     
  7. i'm_sofa_king

    i'm_sofa_king New Member

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    we never put him down when he starts to gowl and snap. we just hold him and tell him to "be queit!" then as soon as he's quiet for awhile we put him down. he's getting the hang of that, now when you pick him up and he starts it, you only say "quiet" once or twice. do cats know about the alfa role? what you described is exactly what my cat does. they will play for awhile, then the cat will get on top of him and hold him dowm and bite him. usually he'll bite him till he yelps or we yell at him. i dont want the cat to hurt the little dog, he out weighs him by at least 14lbs. my puppy weights 4.5 lbs, my cat weighs 19lbs and stands 14 inches tall.

    i'll try the 'claw' biting idea and see if that works.
     
  8. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Be aware that if you try the 'claw biting' and he nips you, you've lost and it's back to square one - farther back, actually, because your unconscious reaction will be to jerk your hand out of harms' way and you've lost complete control at that point. If you try any of these techniques you've got to be willing to follow through just like a dog would follow through. You just don't do this unless you are supremely confident. I would also never, ever get down on all fours with my dogs. They understand the difference in standing on two legs and on four, and there is already an inborn instinct for 99% of the canine world to defer to mankind - on two legs.

    Another thing to think about is that small dogs don't always react the same way big ones do. Small dogs are more likely to just learn to fear you from such aggressive techniques.

    Try not yelling at the cat for putting the dog in it's place when he's being obnoxious. Cats are really very good at not using excessive force - better than many dogs, actually - and your cat is helping you train the dog. Don't undermine your cat's authority, he's the best ally you've got. If you really feel that you need to break something up, either distract the cat with something or just go pick him up, but be sure to pet him and let the dog know the cat has your approval. After all, the cat's not the one you're having the problem with.
     
  9. i'm_sofa_king

    i'm_sofa_king New Member

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    i'll do that. the more i watch them, the more i can tell he's not hurting the puppy. its almost like he knows about the whole alfa dog thing.
     
  10. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    He does! They're the ones that invented it - not us. :)
     
  11. Tanner

    Tanner Yellow Lab/Shepherd Mix

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    Wow does this thread bring back some not too distant memories!! Up until about a month ago, we had major problems with our puppy Tanner and his biting. We had taken him to kanine kindergarten and they told us basically everything that was mentioned already and nothing seemed to work. We found that grabbing his mouth or bottom jaw really made him upset and that if we turned and walked away he would just follow biting at our heels. Finally one day at work, I was complaining about the bites and showing my bruises and a lady said she had just the thing. She said to get an old can with a lid, put some pennies in it, and everytime he latched on to our hands, clothing etc, to shake the can vigorously! Well, we went home and tried it out, and it was amazing! Basically all it is, is a loud noise that will startle the pup and make him stop what he's doing and look. Tanner has did a complete 360, now all you have to say when he starts to get a little mouthy is say "do you want the can??" and he will stop right away. Give it a try, it was a lifesaver for us...Also I know with Tanner a big part of his biting was he was loosing his baby teeth left and right and now he's got all his permanent teeth. Once this happens you'll see a big difference too!
     
  12. dogsrmylife86

    dogsrmylife86 Allison&Ginger

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    all that really isn't true, dogs may understand the difference between two legs and four, but, your dog must truly respect you, you do this after you've established dominance, you haven't established true dominanace over your dog if he reacts crazily when you kneel down on one knee or all fours.
    also not true about how smaller dogs react to what you refer to as agressive, they are most ertainly not, how in the world do you think it was established in the wild? the point is not to make him afraid, never do any sort of training or dominance training sharp and agressively, it does promote fear.

    i've personally seen these tactics used on a chihuahua! if he nips you, it simply is him trying to regain is dominance. eventually the dog will realize, he may nip you but, you truly are dominant by not letting go of him in this submissive position. the trick is to gently pin his head in a position he cannot bite your hand easily, the whole point, it renders him helpless, establishing the dominance. therefore, you won't jerk your hand away and if he bites you, he bites you, he must understand it's a no-no, you won't be back at square one if he nips you, only if he does and you retreat fully.

    another thing, you cannot, absolutly establish true dominance with your dog if your are timid and fearful of him, it gives him the leash, you must always, always be truly confident. if you happen to be bitten, it might happen, you cannot give up, your dog really needs work if he does bite hard and draw blood. all these tactics will help.

    i've even tried this "claw biting" technique on a Japanese Chin, which are tiny dogs, this particular dog didn't like people coming into a friend coming into his "master's" bedroom, he would bark and growl, i used the claw biting technique, he tried bite and growled hard but, eventually he recognized me as dominant and let me walk in and out of the room and pet him unmolested.

    hope this helps,
     
  13. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Regardless, these aren't tactics for most people to use. Ever. If you've had success this way, then you have had success, but the vast majority of people will not and are very likely to end up in a worse situation than they started. Or be dangerously bitten.

    And there are definitely breeds that you never, ever treat this way regardless of how confident you are unless you are the owner.
     
  14. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    This is a puppy. He's not trying to be dominant. Most dogs are not dominant anyway. Being harsh will undermine your pup's trust in you. He just has to learn not to play that way. I think and have found over the years with many dogs that ending all playtime when he's getting out of hand is the best remedy. He wants to play with you in the worst way. When he bites, get up and walk away and ignore him. When he stops, give him a toy that feels good on his teething teeth and praise. Be careful not to make it look like you're praising him for the biting. Be consistant and don't react when he bites. Sometimes any attention, good or bad is a payoff for him. Just take away what he likes....remove the payoff. He'll grow up and grow out of it if you're consistant.
     
  15. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    That's the perfect advice, Doberluv.
     
  16. dogsrmylife86

    dogsrmylife86 Allison&Ginger

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    i have learned ALL of these tactics from world-known trainers, how do you think pups were scolded by their older leaders for this behavior? dogs have strong natural instincts as much as people fight this fact, they treat their dogs like humans. your dog will bond better when you communicate in his language.
    allison
     
  17. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    The trouble with this is that we are not dogs. We cannot communicate the way they do. They know and we know that we are not dogs. In wolf studies, they determined that what many so called world class trainers who train by jerking, scruffing etc are missing something. Wolves or wild dogs do not suddenly jerk, grab, scruff, bite, growl at another. There are some tiny nuances, barely perceptable to most people and certainly not your average pet owner. There are some small body language signs, looks, glares, positions that preceed these harsher acts, when these acts do take place, which is not very frequent.

    Operant and classical conditioning has been understood and proven to be most effective since the day of B.F. Skinner, Pavlov and Lorenz and before them. This is what is truly natural for all living organisms with a brain. This is how everyone learns. It can, if done correctly, supercede any of this attempt for humans to act like dogs.

    That is not to say that one should not be assertive, set rules, enforce rules, be consistant. It's how one goes about it that is important. Training in and of itself, if pleasant is what promotes respect for the owner. Promoting trust builds respect. A fearful dog is an untrusting dog.

    Ensuring a payoff for good behavior will increase the liklihood of repeating that behavior. That is a law of animal behavioral science. And not providing anything good decreases the liklihood of a behavior being repeated. The trouble with most trainers and owners is that they don't see or notice that they are inadvertantly rewarding many behaviors that they don't want. It's something that comes with learning and experience.
     
  18. i'm_sofa_king

    i'm_sofa_king New Member

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    hold his head down when he bites............that might work. its amazing to me to watch my puppy and my 5 year old cat "play". the cat does what is said to be done in wolf packs. he will give the puppy looks, galres, hisses, moews, before he takes action. and when he does, he hold him down on his back and stands over him with his mouth open, sometimes he'll bite him. then he'll let him up. i dont think my puppy gets it though cause he goes right back for more, like he didnt learn his leason or maybe he's just really playful.......either way, i've gotta figure out something to get him to stop biting. i tried most of the things on page one, maybe i'm just impatient alittle. i'll try some more.
     
  19. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    I find that the pups I worked with hate being ignored for 10 minutes more than anything, no eye contact, after no (a shame on you reaction) i would ignore them completely. AFter 10 minutes or so we would resume as if nothing had happened unless the behavior repeated, and then I would no and ignore again. Biting and chewing is normal for pups in the litter, and now solo they try to replace the litter mates with you.You aren't the litter mate though, your the leader. I do not like squeezing a muzzle, especially in a bird dog. Our pups were lucky to have a DAddy dog in the picture. Old Binny would absolutely roar at a pup and sometimes I heard a yike to go with it. He was firm about how hard they could bite, and he never hurt a soul. The neighbor woman only said one good thing about me or my dogs...she was as mean a woman as she could be, but she did like the way the male dog played so gently with the puppies. The only sentence she spoke to me in 12 years. SHe didn't approve of single woman with children so I was a black sheep in her book. Be firm and consistant it won't last long. Replace what you don't want chewed on with what is ok. Putting up anything that could be dangerous if it is chewed up or swallowed. Especially foam products.that could expand if swallowed or plastics that could turn brittle.. Those puppy teeth are sharp aren't they?
     

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