Protection Dog

noodlerubyallie

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#41
I'd third the largish, dark colored, prick eared dog. Since you're not interested in actually pursuing PP/Sch (I think that's what you said? Correct me if I'm wrong.) you'd probably do better with a generic dark, prick eared dog.

I think that it's very hard to get a correct working dog unless you've been in the breed/sport for a long time and have had success training dogs in it. Titled working dogs - not the kind you find on the farm or used by people for hunting. I'm sure those are also hard to come by, and probably hard to find if you don't know someone. :)

Correct, successful, working bred Dobermans are extremely hard to get a hold of. Breeders are rare in the western hemisphere, and you wouldn't be able to get a foot in the door in Europe.
 
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#42
Siberian Husky or Alaskan Malamute would make a great visual.
But don't expect them to do anything, beside licking to them to death.:lol-sign:
People always get scared when I walk my husky. :p
 

DanL

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#43
Because the one I personaly know, and hang out with, will, without a doupt protect you. Some of them have proven it, and some, judging by thier temperment will. Not all show dogs are sucks. The ones I personaly know, in my group of show friends actually have decent tempements. I never once said all show dobies, but the ones in my circle of friends will.

Jazz didnt have a proper temperment, but she would have and did protect me from harm. But there is a difference between a pet who would protect if needed, and one who could do Schuzhund (sp?) or IPO. I dont think the OP wants a sport dog, just a family pet.
Exactly what did Jazz do to protect you? What did the threat do in response? Again we get down to what the definition is. Bark/growl/show teeth, if a threat goes away, then that is protecting you. What the dog does beyond that is where the question marks lie. Perfect example, a white GSD that clearly did not have the temperament to be a protection dog, yet it's owner was convinced he'd protect, and finally got called out on it by our trainers. The dog would put up a good front, lunging, barking, growling, teeth snapping. As long as the decoy didn't come at the dog and put him in defense mode. Then he'd shut down. They told the guy they didn't want to invest any more time in the dog as he was a liablity because he was a fear biter and lacked what it took. The owner argued, one of the trainers finally said "I'm so confident that your dog will not do anything, I'll let you send him at me and I won't use any gear to protect myself". The owner sent the dog, the trainer rushed at it and yelled, and the dog kept his distance. The trainer then went to the owner and they wrestled around to see what would happen, the dog did nothing but stay 20' away and bark. Finally the dog saw another trainer, and since he was no threat, went after him instead until that trainer yelled and acted aggresive toward the dog. This is how MOST dogs will react. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just how it is.

What you are not understanding is that a dog that will protect you, in the true definition (NOT bark and act scary, but willfully engage and fight a threat until the threat is neutralized) is way beyond what a Sch/IPO dog is trained to do. I'm not taking away from those sports, but to say a dog that does those sports will protect you is not accurate. Sure there are dogs who do those sports who could succeed in protecting you, they are the ones that would succeed in venues that are much more taxing on the dog than Sch. There is little to no defense put on a dog in Sch or IPO. It's all prey work which is fun for the dog. A real life situation is highly defensive and most dogs do not like that. Defense is where the dog tries to get the threat to go away, and if it doesn't that's where fight mode kicks in. Most dogs don't want the fight, and they will go into avoidance and back down. It's a natural response, live another day. Artfish hit the nail on the head with his post.

I know this has gone far off topic from what the OP's question was, but let's at least be clear on what a protection dog really is and make sure that is understood before we start making statements like the show dogs I know will protect you.
 

colliewog

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#44
a good mal, dutch or heeler is A LOT of dog & you'll spend a lot of time teaching them when not to bite. you would do well to get on some PP boards & ask much more experienced & active individuals. then discard half of what they say and seek out the real gurus they will mention in the process.
:thumbup:
 

colliewog

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#45
I am not particularly interested in doing sports. I have my border collie for that :D But yes, I am aiming more for a well-rounded dog I could trust around people/kids, but that also would be intimidating to intruders and could (hopefully) show some teeth if he/she felt there was a threat.

Bouvier?? I love them (but am not a grooming person, so they're out for me). It's a big wooley bear and has a pretty menacing bark. But they're good family dogs and for the most part, stable dogs.
 
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#46
However, I am an anxious person. I am nervous of the dark (yes I know, pathetic, but I can't help it!) and don't feel comfortable being home alone very much.
This tells me that what you need to look for is not so much a breed as an individual dog. You need a calm dog, one that won't feel the need to take danger cues from you or feed off of your insecurities or fears. My best advice to you would be to NOT get a puppy, but to look in shelters for an adult dog that is calm and confident.
 

~Tucker&Me~

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#47
This tells me that what you need to look for is not so much a breed as an individual dog. You need a calm dog, one that won't feel the need to take danger cues from you or feed off of your insecurities or fears. My best advice to you would be to NOT get a puppy, but to look in shelters for an adult dog that is calm and confident.

Yes, I never wanted a puppy :p Besides that very important point, I also just don't want to have to deal with house training. I will probably look at adult dogs from shelters, and breeders, if they are trying to rehome older dogs of theirs.
 

stafinois

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#49
A short fuse and reactivity is the result of poor breeding. Actually, the missing off switch is also the result of poor breeding, but has become so common people overlook it when choosing what to breed.

The short fuse and reactivity can be quite flashy in a sport dog, so I think that some people probably value the traits :yikes:


Nyx has that short fuse and reactivity. Her bloodline is known for it. There are people who actually like that and will continue to breed for dogs like her. :rolleyes: Granted, when I'm able to channel her in the right direction, she's amazing and I can see what the attraction is, but it's really not correct.

My dog is similar. He spends so much time reacting that he doesn't bother to THINK. When he actually stops and uses his head, he's actually a rather sensible dog. But, the lightbulb over his head doesn't get switched on often in situations that are even remotely exciting to him. He's too busy going "AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!" A physical correction can often bring him back to reality. He's just not a dog that I like to take out in public very often.


It is very possible to find malis that don't have the short fuse and reactivity issues and that are environmentally stable. It's more difficult to find one with an off switch, but even that can be done.

I've seen some lovely ones that are just that from West Coast breeders that blend show/working lines.


I don't suggest a mali if you're not experienced with high drive/high energy dogs and if you don't have a plan for lots of exercise and training.

Yes, this.
 

Pops2

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#51
i have found the heelers in general to be drivey & game as the best mals but not as short fused. the short fuse that is so competitive in some sports is why all the military mals & most of the gsds i've been around have bitten their own handlers. i haven't seen that in the heelers. so for me personally if i wanted a dog w/ the potential of engaging a threat & the heart to stay engaged until i can eliminate the threat and i'd get a good heeler before a mal or gsd (i would like a malX to something to lengthen the fuse though). but i would also feel pretty good about a good curdog. but remember my comparisons are military dogs to the ranch/hunting dogs i've been around. i don't have the personal experience of Dan, but if i really wanted to most out of one of these i would seek out someone like him to mentor me into the sport training. it's a good foundation for moving on to real work and builds the relationship that increases the chances of the dog REALLY doing the job when needed.
 

~Tucker&Me~

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#52
Thanks everyone for your opinions :)

I will digest and think about them... I have plenty of time anyway! lol
 
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#53
This worries me a little because I DO want to be able to walk the dog in public areas. So do you mean they can't be around people in close proximity, like will they growl and should I be very worried about having people around? Or is it more of a case of them ignoring strangers?
My Filas have been HEAVILY socialized from the time they were 3 months old and I have always been able to take them with me. They don't so much ignore strangers as they watch and are aware. One of the aspects of socializing a Fila is to allow them to absorb and learn the spectrum of "normal," non-threatening human behavior so that they can draw on that to make good decisions.

...they also tend to be more independant thinkers who can look at you go "oh shes just jumping at shadows but ill check anyway" do a quick partol then return to your side to go to sleep.
This is PURE Fila, lol. Kharma has it down to a science, right down to the disgusted, "yes, I disturbed my beauty sleep to go check for bogeys" look.

Probably a mix like Opie would be a great choice for you.
 
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#54
You've been given some great advice on here!!!!! I just wanted to add what the PP trainer I work with says when someone asks him the difference between the 3 Shepherds (he has Belgian Mals, Dutch Sheps and GSDs).

Mals are on speed...constantly. They are always on the go, always having to do something and "days off" dont register in their books. They are hair trigger and will react first and think about it later. This means if you are tip-toeing to the kitchen at night to get a drink and you startle your Mal you may find yourself with a dog hanging off your arm and then while he is gripping your arm he starts thinking "Oh, its YOU! hey hows it going? Oh, right, sorry about your arm" *releases the bite and licks your arm in puppy-style hopeful forgiveness*. None the less though, properly raised and trained and with mental and physical excercise met they are wonderful dogs! Extremely loyal and fun to be around!

GSDs, well as Stuart says, "everyone already knows" LOL They hit hard but it takes work to get them to hit in the first place like Dan was saying. Lots of intimidation factor but when it comes down to "go time" few actually have it in them. They think before they react but that could be because they are thinking if they have it in them to bite at all LOL Great dogs none the less, again very loyal.

Dutch Shepherds are like the "in between" of the two dogs. The hit as hard and fast as a Mal but they take the time to think about what is going on first. They have the high exercise requirements of the Mal but are easier to "turn off". Also very loyal like the other two.

Myself if I were to get one for protection I would go with the Dutch most likely.
 

stafinois

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#55
Mals are on speed...constantly. They are always on the go, always having to do something and "days off" dont register in their books. They are hair trigger and will react first and think about it later.

This. If Harry could talk, I think his motto would be, "In retrospect, maybe that was a bad idea..."
 

DanL

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#56
Earlier in the thread I posted a link to a Dutchie, check it out if you haven't already.
 
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#57
protection dogs are a lot of responsibility and more work that almost every single person I know are capable of taking on or wanting to.

Get a dog that has a reputation by look alone and will bark. Going to that next level of having a dog that will truly protect is something you don't decide without working with working dogs for quite some time.
 
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#60
protection dogs are a lot of responsibility and more work that almost every single person I know are capable of taking on or wanting to.

Get a dog that has a reputation by look alone and will bark. Going to that next level of having a dog that will truly protect is something you don't decide without working with working dogs for quite some time.
I 100% agree with this! Like someone previously stated anyone that is willing to come through an "agressive" looking GSD or Rottie are going to need a gun to be stopped. I personally would look for a dark blanket back GSD or a dark sable (as those are usually associated with being police dogs) and count on the intimidation factor. A true PP dog is alot of work and can become a huge liability if not properly managed.

I am alot like you, very anxious and swear "they are coming for me" lol (ok I'm not that crazy). My dog offers exactly what I want and need. No one approaches me when I have him with me. But would he protect in a real life situation? I honestly have no clue and have no intentions on finding out :p. And would I WANT him to protect (as in engage the threat)? No I do not. He will probably just get hurt, or get in the way when its my turn to take over. So I will just end up with a dead dog, or get hurt in the process of saving him. If his looks and behavior (act menacing on command) dont stop someone, then its my job to nuetralize the threat not his.
 

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