Problem Again: Groomers?

[PoodleMommy]

It seems I can never find any decent animal people around here (trainers, groomers, etc.) So Again I come here for advice...

I picked my dog up at the groomer today, this groomer has been doing her since she was 5 months old and she is now 10 months old... He always said she was a very good "patient", she acted fine going and there was no signs that anything was not right until the last visit. When I picked her up he made a comment that she was very nervous and fidgety, i brushed it off as nothing. This morning when I dropped her off she was shaking a lot which she does not normally do, I did not pay attention to it as I did not want her to think anything was wrong.

Now, I go to pick her up and he said to that she snapped at him when he went to touch her front paws and that he yelled at her. First thing I did not like, it kind of caught be off guard, why would a groomer yell at my dog? Especially the first time she did this, why not think, maybe I hurt her or something... it just seemed odd. That he proceeds to say that if she keeps doing it he will just muzzle her. The whole thing was sort of odd... he did not act caring or nice... it was all said with a kind of cold demeanor.

This is the first groomer this dog has been to but I was with about 11 different groomers with the last dog I had...I have seen an ad in the paper recently for a grooming facility where "mommy and daddy can stay"... question is should I stay with him and see what happens or change?
Am I overreacting as usual, or does he not sound like someone I want my dog to be with....I just wish my dog could talk and tell me what happened.

Thanks for listening to me vent and any responses would be appreciated, especially any groomers who could tell me if it is normal to muzzle or yell at dogs.

Elissa

 

[Sweet72947]

I am not a groomer myself, but I worked at a grooming facility for 2 years as a receptionist. If your dog was good at first, and then all of a sudden she is acting scared to be at the groomer, you can bet something happened to change her perspective. I'm not saying something majorly bad happened to your dog. Sometimes it can be little things that make them dislike grooming. For example, I have a terrier mix that I groom myself. He is bad for his legs and face. He's been that way since we got him. However, he didn't used to be bad for his back legs. My sister was trimming the fur on his back foot with my scissors and she accidently quicked his nail with them. Quicked nails are no big deal. They happen all the time. But, quicking a nail was enough to upset the terrier mix, and now he is bad (bites) for his back legs as well. Maybe your groomer quicked a nail and it scared the dog. Maybe something more happened. You'll probably never know for sure.

As for muzzling, it is common to muzzle dogs if they are biting for grooming. Biting is dangerous for both the groomer and the dog. The dog could bite the scissors/clippers which could result in a cut tongue (they bleed a LOT) or bite the groomer which could result in injury impeding the groomer's ability to groom.

Yelling at a dog is not a common practice. Yelling usually took place after a groomer had been fighting a dog for a while and was particularly frustrated. The yelling usually consisted of a loud STOP or NO. Yelling usually doesn't get the groomer anywhere. Actually, yellling usually makes the dog more nervous and scared.

Trying out a different grooming shop where you can stay and watch the groom might be a good idea. It will give you a chance to see how your dog REALLY behaves during grooming, and your dog might be better behaved for a different groomer.

Sorry if this was long. Hope it helped

 

[dr2little]

It seems I can never find any decent animal people around here (trainers, groomers, etc.) So Again I come here for advice...

I picked my dog up at the groomer today, this groomer has been doing her since she was 5 months old and she is now 10 months old... He always said she was a very good "patient", she acted fine going and there was no signs that anything was not right until the last visit. When I picked her up he made a comment that she was very nervous and fidgety, i brushed it off as nothing. This morning when I dropped her off she was shaking a lot which she does not normally do, I did not pay attention to it as I did not want her to think anything was wrong.

Now, I go to pick her up and he said to that she snapped at him when he went to touch her front paws and that he yelled at her. First thing I did not like, it kind of caught be off guard, why would a groomer yell at my dog? Especially the first time she did this, why not think, maybe I hurt her or something... it just seemed odd. That he proceeds to say that if she keeps doing it he will just muzzle her. The whole thing was sort of odd... he did not act caring or nice... it was all said with a kind of cold demeanor.

This is the first groomer this dog has been to but I was with about 11 different groomers with the last dog I had...I have seen an ad in the paper recently for a grooming facility where "mommy and daddy can stay"... question is should I stay with him and see what happens or change?
Am I overreacting as usual, or does he not sound like someone I want my dog to be with....I just wish my dog could talk and tell me what happened.

Thanks for listening to me vent and any responses would be appreciated, especially any groomers who could tell me if it is normal to muzzle or yell at dogs.

Elissa

Grrrrrrr..this just P!sses me right off. It's all about the allmigty dollar to some. You're absolutely right that he shouldn't have yelled at your dog. How dare he, I hope that's all that happened. How do they not realize that this can effect them for all future groomings??
Have you thought of grooming them yourself? I went and got all of the stuff (good set of clippers/guards of various sizes, really good scissors) and while it was expensive, a couple of grooming appointments for my dogs and they're paid for. Not to mention the priceless benefit of NO MORE BAD GROOMERS! I just had Sophie clipped down, supervised, to a nice short length so that I could start from a reasonable point. Sophie and Amos will probably have a few bad hair days, but I'll get the hang of it. I find that if I do a bit at a time instead of tackling the whole dog, I do a better job. I bought a grooming video and it has some great tips on the "how toos" of many cuts...maybe worth a try.
Now before anyone gets all hot and bothered about me bashing groomers, I know there are good ones out there. Unfortunately though, it only takes one bad experience with a groomer to ruin someones beloved pet for LIFE. It just makes me so mad. Why can't they take precautions (soft muzzel and patience) and then send the dog home with the best they can do rather than stressing them out by yelling at them....or worse which is all to often the case. If in fact she did have a issue that had nothing to do with the groomers rough treatment, then he could have told you so that you could prepare her for the next time and try again another day. I for one would rather pay twice than have my dog traumatized.
There are some real problems in this industry, at least here in Calgary. I know of a gal who went through the only "reputable" grooming school in Calgary and the horror stories were enough to make me see red. A groomer, who I used to use to groom my blind/deaf dog Rosie, was fired for cruelty...she had killed 2 dogs in the space of a year.
I never let my dogs go behind closed doors...ever.

 

[Sweet72947]

Dr2little you are absolutely right. There ARE a lot of groomers out there who only care about money...the owner of the shop I worked at was that way. There was a keeshond that came there every three months or so to get groomed, and I heard through the grapevine that a groomer used to beat him with a brush . The owners were never told about it, although the groomer was fired. The dog was difficult to groom because he bit for brushing. He was a sweet dog otherwise. He would bite at you, then lick you as if to say he was sorry.

I also knew of a groomer or two that almost got fired a couple of times for doing the right thing.

 

[PoodleMommy]

dr2little: I would love to groom her myself, but she is a toy poodle and I think she would end up looking horrible...lol


I think the next step is to try the place that lets you stay and watch... because then I can watch everything that goes on.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Elissa

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

I definitely WOULD NOT take her back to him!!!!

 

[RD]

I wouldn't take her back to him.

I did muzzle certain dogs when I groomed them. Better to muzzle the dog than to send it home because it's chewed off all your fingers. I had a standard Schnauzer that would try to rip my hands off when I did his nails, and he always got the muzzle when it came time to trim his nails and feet. It didn't bother him and I actually noticed that he seemed less stressed out and resisted less when he was muzzled.

TBH, grooming ABSOLUTELY is about the money. All jobs are. I was not being paid to train people's dogs, I was being paid to make them look pretty. I'm not a dog whisperer - if I were to have coddled and coaxed every dog I groomed into enjoying the process, I would have gotten maybe two dogs groomed per day. If people wanted to pay me extra to train their dog, fine, I'd be happy to do it.
Yelling, hitting and hanging? NO F'ING WAY. I was firm with the dogs I groomed, but I never ever resorted to abuse. I'd send a dog home and say that I could not groom it due to its behavior, before I would mistreat it in order to get the money. I think it's sick that people will abuse animals just so they can make a few extra bucks.

Edit: The grooming shops where mommy and daddy can stay are a decent idea. We rarely allowed it where I worked, because often times people wanted to be petting their dogs and coddling them the entire time and it really made things more difficult for us. If they'd yip and fuss while their feet were being handled or while their nails were being done (simply because they were nervous and their nervousness was exacerbated by their fretting owner) the people would shriek and yell at the groomer not to hurt the dog. If the dog had basic manners and the owners were courteous, though, we were always willing to allow it.

 

[SummerRiot]

If your puppy is scared of the groomer.. hes doing SOMETHING wrong.

I was a gromming assistant for a year with two different groomers a couple years ago..

the first groomer was fired b/c of her "managing ways" with the dogs. She was abusive to the dogs, tossed them around, held them down forcefully, yelled at them, dumped them into the bath tub. It was horrible. I hated working with her, i'd always try and comfort the dog - the dog would love me, then whenever they say her back, they would shake, growl or pee on the table. It was just horrible. I spoke to a few of her clients when i could and told them to try and find a new groomer when she wasn't around lol She lost a lot of clients.

The second groomer I worked with was very nice - she spoke to the dogs, touched them gentley, gave them treats if they were scared of her at first. All the dogs that were groomed by the first groomer eventually warmed up to the second and were wonders to groom and clip.

Some of the dogs couldn't hardly wait to get onto the grooming table lol It was adorable.

Definately switch groomers

 

[PoodleMommy]

RD, I see your point regarding the muzzling.

I dont expect him to train my dog, she has never showed this "aggression" at home or I would have dealt with it. She will hurt NO one, little kids grab at her, different people hold her, she never has snapped at anyone. I also never had a chance to deal with nerves due to the groomer because he always said she was so great. I have touched her feet, brushed her, blow dryed her, bathed her, and she always acts like it does not phase her. This is the reason, this incident out of nowhere kind of shocked me.

I am going to try the new place where I can stay and watch, I checked their website and it looks GREAT. They also have poodles of their own, so they obviously know how to groom them.

Thanks Again for all the advice.

Elissa

 

[SummerRiot]

Let us know how the new place goes!

 

[RD]

That does sound odd, it's possible that she was just having a bad day but I'd switch simply because of the groomer's cold demeanor.. That's not someone I'd want working with my dog.

Good luck at the new place!

 

[dr2little]

Yelling, hitting and hanging? NO F'ING WAY. I was firm with the dogs I groomed, but I never ever resorted to abuse. I'd send a dog home and say that I could not groom it due to its behavior, before I would mistreat it in order to get the money. I think it's sick that people will abuse animals just so they can make a few extra bucks..

This is exactly my point, if more groomer's sent dogs home instead of abusing the dog in order to be payed, the whole industry would change.
I know that there are people out there who demand that the job be done no matter how stressed their dogs are in the process, send 'em packing.
There is absolutely no excuse for abuse, no matter where you work (not you RD ), or how much you needs the money. The thought that anyone would be so ignorant as to hold a dog down, hit it with a brush, scruff it or any other form of abuse just makes my blood boil. It can be difficult to include the owner in the grooming experience, but it can be done and is done in many grooming salons. If it's a problem for the groomer, it's a pretty sure sign that there's something to hide. Just set down some simple rules for the owners so that they don't contribute to their dogs stress level and let them know that they'll get the grooming job that can be done humanely, and will be charged accordingly. Simple!
I have to say that I wish more owners took responsibility to ensure that their dogs have learned to enjoy the kind of touching that must occur during grooming. One hour of each of my puppy sessions is dedicated to just this type of training. I show owners how to teach a hold, how not to "need" restraint while brushing and clipping nails, ear cleaning, teeth cleaning..etc.
If a groomer would just picture a stranger doing what is done to their clients dogs on a regular basis...they'd blow a fuse. It's just never excuseable.
If I ever see the groomer who killed the 2 dogs and abused my blind and deaf rescue, lets just say she'd better be moving quickly in the other direction!!

 

[Julie]

I think staying and watching........even through a window is a great idea. Then you will see exactly how your dog reacts and if the groomer is doing something too harsh.

When Charlie cut his foot and got out of the hospital two nights later........ I had to take him for bandage changes about every two days. Well the first couple times I took him an assistant would come up to me and reach for Charlies leash and say they are ready for Charlie. I just told them that I am not sqeemish and would like to accompany him for the bandage change. The first couple times with different workers they all acted shocked. But after a few times all of them knew.....and there was no question. They also seemed to like the extra help in lifting him on the table and me petting his head to keep him calm. I also learned how to change a bandage and the best products to use. Which came in very handy when he chewed, or got the bandage dirty or wet. I guess the point I am trying to make is.....
It is great to be involved and you really can learn lots....but let the professionals do their job without interruptions and take it all in.....Maybe you would feel comfortable with trying the cuts on your own if you watch them a couple times.
I got many compliments on my bandages....and I thanked the tech, and she seemed really pleased.

 

[dr2little]

I think staying and watching........even through a window is a great idea. Then you will see exactly how your dog reacts and if the groomer is doing something too harsh.

When Charlie cut his foot and got out of the hospital two nights later........ I had to take him for bandage changes about every two days. Well the first couple times I took him an assistant would come up to me and reach for Charlies leash and say they are ready for Charlie. I just told them that I am not sqeemish and would like to accompany him for the bandage change. The first couple times with different workers they all acted shocked. But after a few times all of them knew.....and there was no question. They also seemed to like the extra help in lifting him on the table and me petting his head to keep him calm. I also learned how to change a bandage and the best products to use. Which came in very handy when he chewed, or got the bandage dirty or wet. I guess the point I am trying to make is.....
It is great to be involved and you really can learn lots....but let the professionals do their job without interruptions and take it all in.....Maybe you would feel comfortable with trying the cuts on your own if you watch them a couple times.
I got many compliments on my bandages....and I thanked the tech, and she seemed really pleased.

That's exactly what I do. After the experience with Rosie, I stay through each of my dog's proceedures and surgeries. I just can't let anyone take any of my dogs behind closed doors ever again. My Vet. is terrific and I am not going to screw up this privilege by misbehaving. I was with Amos while he lost his "berries", with Lola during her entire spay, with Sophie during a tooth extraction and will be with Tinker during her jaw reconstruction surgery later this month. More clinics should allow this for owners who want to be with their pets. It free's them up to do other things while the drugs are taking effect and during recovery.
If owner's remain calm and helpful, pets just do better with the owner present.

 

[RD]

My vets are very familiar with me as I volunteer in their clinics whenever I get the chance. I "shadow" both of them when they do surgeries on occasion and they know I'm not squeamish and that I'm familiar with most of the procedures, so they have always allowed me to be there when something is being done with my dog.
On the flip side though, I've spent lots of time with both vets. Not once have I seen anyone mistreat an animal, and I would have no worries about leaving my animals in their care.

 

[elegy]

dr2little: I would love to groom her myself, but she is a toy poodle and I think she would end up looking horrible...lol

i'm sure you could learn to groom her if you were interested in it. i used to groom my old mini. she looked a little rough sometimes especially at the beginning, but the more i did it, the better i got at it.

 

[Presents]

I know for me it's all about the dog. not me, not the parent, but the baby on my table. I have gotten into trouble for sending a dog home before the groom was completed because I felt that the stress level had been reached. I tell the parent to try again in a day or two, and it usually goes without a hitch.

You have to go with your feelings on this, and find another groomer, or as I try to do with any of my clients, encourage them to do it. If it looks that bad, I can fix it. But i'm sure you will soon be very happy with the groom you and your baby achieve. The time you spend grooming your pet will strengthen the bond that has already formed. I'm all for parents grooming, even if it puts me out of business.

 

[mysilverlining]

Do you have any mobile groomers in your area? If so, that is something you might want to try. I've been grooming for 4 years, but this is my 2nd year doing mobile grooming (just opened my own business).
Dogs who are nervous, for whatever reason, seem to do very well in a grooming van, where there are no other dogs, and they are receiving one on one attention. Your dogs is never in a cage, and the groomers hands are always on the dog to comfort and protect.

As far as the groomer you went to, I feel that there is absolutely no excuse for him yelling at your dog. Dogs can understand a firm voice without becoming scared. I don't like the tone he appears to have taken with you.

As far as the dog becoming scared, its not necessarily anything the groomer did. The kindest groomer can have dogs that don't want to go to them. There are so many things that a dog can react to. Its possible there was an aggressive dog in the same room, or a cat. Its possible that another dog that was afraid, or not used to being in a cage, was putting up a fuss. There can even be things going on outside the salon that scares the dog and makes them associate that with grooming. My motto on my van is "Humane, compassionate, and personalized attention for your dog." I pride myself in developing relationships with the dogs and would feel terrible if someone thought I did something to their dog because he was afraid to go in the van.

 

[dr2little]

I know for me it's all about the dog. not me, not the parent, but the baby on my table. I have gotten into trouble for sending a dog home before the groom was completed because I felt that the stress level had been reached. I tell the parent to try again in a day or two, and it usually goes without a hitch.

You have to go with your feelings on this, and find another groomer, or as I try to do with any of my clients, encourage them to do it. If it looks that bad, I can fix it. But i'm sure you will soon be very happy with the groom you and your baby achieve. The time you spend grooming your pet will strengthen the bond that has already formed. I'm all for parents grooming, even if it puts me out of business.

I wish more felt the way that you do... Can we clone you??