Post about Ojeriza

Discussion in 'Dog News and Articles' started by CharlieDog, Feb 14, 2009.

  1. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    Retrieverman's Weblog

    Just wondering what some of the fila people on here think about this...

    If everyone were up to Renee and Beep's standard of care and socialization, I'd say this man is standing on thin ice... But unfortunately, not everyone is..
     
  2. Sweet72947

    Sweet72947 Squishy face

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    Interesting article. I'm curious to see what Chaz's Fila owners say about it.
     
  3. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Another case of someone who knows nothing talking out of his ass. I tried to post but the computer locked up.

    Narrow minded morons like him would have us all having a choice of retrievers, or retrievers. :rolleyes: Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather be dogless.
     
  4. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    LOL. I love this comment:

    "However, in most dog breeds, even those bred for guarding behavior, we are trying to breed away from aggression (except, apparently, in golden retrievers)."

    :rofl1:
     
  5. Buddy'sParents

    Buddy'sParents *Finding My Inner Fila*

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  6. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

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    I don't necessarily agree with him, but how DO you justify breeding for that kind of drive in a modern environment?


    ETA - I have nothing against guardian breeds, but everyone elsewhere is so quit to point out that ojeriza is NOT guardiness- it's aggression towards ANY stranger, ALWAYS. It's not the directed, controlled aggression of a working GSD or malinois patrol dog- it's the default setting. How the heck is that safe?
     
  7. Buddy'sParents

    Buddy'sParents *Finding My Inner Fila*

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    Don't bother replying, Renee. I posted a response and it got denied and I was even nice about it! Didn't let me inner fila out at all.... well, a little, but not very much. ;)

    How do you justify the breeder of GSD's whose hips are bad they nearly touch the ground? How do you justify the breeding of animals that have trouble breething?

    Ojeriza does NOT equal aggression. My dog is NOT aggressive. I would not tolerate aggression in my home and have put down a dog for aggression. Ojeriza is distrust of strangers. Aggression in my opinion is attacking, vicious, behavior.

    Filas are expected to know the difference between what a real threat is and is not. If a fila owner says their dog is aggressive, then I do not believe that they have a fila with true temperament.

    I always use the example of last May... there were four strangers walking around Bella's house while she roamed free. An aggressive dog would not allow that. A dog that is well socialized and trained respectively would. Filas were bred to HOLD... that is where Fila comes from.. the word filar, which means to hold.

    That nincompoop on that blog does not know what he is talking about and I said the same thing on his blog... if you have not spoken with people who have filas and have never been around them, then no one is in a worthy enough place to pass ANY judgment on why the dogs are bred and why people have them.
     
  8. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Ojeriza - correct ojeriza is NOT aggression :rolleyes:

    Kharma functions beautifully in the modern world, and she allows me to live and move about in the modern world with nearly complete freedom as nothing else can. And remember, I've had GSDs since I was 11 or 12 years old and loved the breed. But now that I've lived with Filas the GSDs can't compare for me. Kharma's reactions are also far more predictable to me, her owner, than a GSD's. She also has better judgment as to how far she needs to go to achieve her ends.

    Her ojeriza is far more controlled and directed than a trained GSD or Malinois's. She KNOWS. They know what they're told.
     
  9. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

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    To be honest, neither of these dogs would meet the definition I've always been told of ojeriza.
     
  10. Buddy'sParents

    Buddy'sParents *Finding My Inner Fila*

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    Preach it. :cool: ;)
     
  11. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

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    So.... in an article about the "True Fila Temperament"

    Ojeriza
     
  12. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Maybe you've been talking to the wrong people. :rolleyes:

    But . . . tell it to those who've crossed the line with Kharma, including some of the local cops and their little K9s. Tell it to the moron who thought I'd be easy prey out walking. Tell it to the prowler who found himself confronted with an angry Fila coming through a broken window after him. Tell it to dude who got a steel bar taken away from him by a seven month old puppy. I might add that she never laid a tooth on him. She disarmed him and as long as he stood still she was quite satisfied.

    Too many people - even long time owners - have no concept of how devastatingly intellligent this breed is, or how cognizant and able to adapt they are. I've never encountered any other breed of dog that comes close. I am, though, speaking of working lines, or lines that have a goodly percentage of working lines.
     
  13. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

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    So the fact that your dog did NOT attack and severely injure the prowler, which is defined as correct temperament, is supposed to make me feel better about people breeding for that quality?

    I think Kharma sounds like a really awesome dog, and I think that quality of judgement sounds awesome. But you know, I run into people who think that their collies will instinctively protect children, that their BCs will herd sheep usefully without any training and that their lab that's never been outside the city will be a useful duck dog in a day. Dogs are DOGS.
     
  14. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Um. DUH.

    Someone attempting to touch a dog who clearly does not want to be touched is not the victim of aggression. They're a victim of their own gross stupidity.

    Bear in mind the CAFIB info has largely passed through some not-so-exact translations.

    GSDs are nice dogs. I've always loved them. But they aren't Filas. Nothing is.
     
  15. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Ah, but the difference is, Kharma's proven herself - numerous times, not only in her temperament but in her herding instincts, hunting abilities and general "fila-ness." And it doesn't matter if you or anyone else is comfortable with her abilities and temperament. I am. I'm the one who matters.

    They aren't for everyone. They truly are a breed for a very few, and we don't want just anyone to think they should have one. It takes a certain temperament to share your life with a Fila.
     
  16. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

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    I know translation issues can make breed standards tricky, but it still seems to me like a quality which is notable in the situations you've described by it's absence, not it's presence.
     
  17. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    She was 7 months old when she disarmed the 6'5", 380 pound man.

    When she was grown and we were accosted out walking she went directly for the man's face and throat. He immediately retreated. She knew she didn't need to pursue it farther.
     
  18. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    My question is, honestly, how many can be socialized like Kharma? Can you socialize the heck out of one, and have it ok, if its owner gets sick and is hospitalized for a week? It seems inevitable that someone unknown to the dog would have to touch him at some point (vet?)

    In any case, comparing the Fila to a GSD isn't fair. The jobs of a Mastiff and a "Herding/Police" dog are pretty different. Even if they were trackers, it seems the fila has kept much more of its own instinct to protect a territory and to think on its own. A GSD or Malinois, well, if I tell it to grab someone, they'd better do it. Thats usually prey drive.
     
  19. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    You're correct. There is no comparison :)

    Honestly? I wondered the same thing. It's not so much a matter of "socializing" in the same way we think of socializing other dogs, it's really "schooling" the Fila and giving it an opportunity to learn about the world and how it works. I've been amazed. She understands.

    It was really interesting to be able to interact with Bella and see how, even at a young age, she worked it out in her head that it was okay for me to be there and then applied what she learned to the other people who came later. She did differentiate between people. Bella accepted BabyBlue more easily than she did a couple of Nikki's family members.

    As far as the vet goes, you start taking the Fila in to visit and get to know the vet and the techs before you need vet care. If your vet isn't willing to do that without charging you, then you need another vet as that one doesn't have the sense necessary to treat a Fila.
     
  20. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

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    You're right, a GSD or Mal isn't the right comparison. A better one might be a Pyr or Anatolian, perhaps? I would still say that those dogs DO require socialization to be ultimately successful- one that bites the vet or has to be lasso'd and chased down and then dragged into a kennel in order for the livestock to be vetted or loaded for sale or whatever- is better than nothing but still a potential liability.
     

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