Please Neuter

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Richie12345, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. Oski

    Oski GSD lover

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    Very well said!! I was thinking the same thing...I am still young, but I would like to be able to keep my sexual organs for the rest of my life.. I hear about woman that have to get hysterectomies and they have a lot of problems afterward, not to mention the emotional problems they go through. I dont know if you wantch Sex and the City..lol..but when Samantha thought she was going through menapause and was devastated, she screamed halleluah when she got her period.

    I totally agree with definately having a stray neutured because you have no idea what the family history is. I also am a little ticked off about some people's perception of breeders. I bet you that not every single one of you has bought a puppy from a 100% best in show parents....so why do a lot of you say that you should never Breed dogs that are not trophy award winners? If everyone did that then we wouldn't have many dogs available to us to buy....and the ones that we could find would be way out of most of our price range. I bought my puppy from GSD breeders that I found in the papers...according to some people, people that sell puppies after they are born, one's that don't already have owners before they are born, are backyard breeders. I will say it again, if we all breeders had to wait until they had potential buyers for all of the puppies born, then a lot of us common folks wouldnt be able to buy a dog. I looked them up in the paper and then went to their website and very much approved of the way they did things, good health records, DNA testing done on the stud, OFA certification..ect.. Even though I didn't buy my dog from top award winning parents...my guy is growing into a very beatiful dog with great conformations....and now I am interested in getting him involved in dog shows in the the future.

    I would really like some input from others about what they think about my point. :) cuz you can't learn new things from things that are not said.

    Thank you
     
  2. Oski

    Oski GSD lover

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    Actually all domesticated dogs (except for the Chihuahuas, who are related to the rat) originated from wolves....so they do have very much to do with one another..

    This website goes further into it:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4965516.stm
     
  3. Oski

    Oski GSD lover

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    Opinion very well stated! It would be nice if everyone had your non-judgemental attitude :)
     
  4. oc_spirit

    oc_spirit Snow Girl

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    I can say this for sure, unless a health risk pops up I will not be doing any neutering or spaying before the age of two ever again!! Once the dog turns two if there still is no medical reason why he needs to have it done or he has some big deformity that I dont want to be passed on to any dog then i wont have it done. Why? Because there are many benefits to leaving a dog intact which I find funny that no one mentions and to me those outweight the benefits of neutering.
     
  5. Whisper

    Whisper Kaleidoscopic Eye

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    Oh, come on..
     
  6. Oski

    Oski GSD lover

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    :lol-sign: seriously...but its ok...rats are cool, very smart. :)


    ......no, im kidding, I just thought I would throw one of those funny myths in there for kicks, but I do like them...who doesn't like the Taco Bell dog??? lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2007
  7. ~Jessie~

    ~Jessie~ Chihuahua Power!

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    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  8. ozzie72

    ozzie72 New Member

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    I have nothing against spaying/neutering,except when owners think it's a magic bullet to all of their pets behavioural problems,when instead a good training program should be implemented.

    I am however against spaying/neutering young puppies.At least wait until they are physically and mentally mature before taking away their hormones,which they need to properly develop to their full potential,both mentally and physically.
     
  9. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Definitely true of the large breeds. My breed (borzoi) should NEVER be altered before one year of age, preferably after two. Doing so prevents their growth plates from ever properly closing and is guaranteed to cause arthritis. Every good borzoi breeder out there puts a requirement in their contract stating that the puppy will not be subjected to pediatric spaying or neutering. It's pretty unnecessary in their case anyway, as most females don't even go into their first heat until their third year.

    We will probably neuter Strider when he turns two, BUT may choose to keep him intact if the male dog birth control drugs are approved for use in the US by the time he is two( very possible). The breed is extremely sensitive to anesthesia, and him dying during the surgery is a very real risk that I would rather avoid if possible. The only way I would ever consider allowing him to breed would be if:

    He passed health tests for joints, thyroid, heart, and eyes, and tested negative for brucellosis.

    He has a proven stable and awesome temperament (Above and beyond passing CGC)

    He makes it past 5 years of age without bloating.

    He proves himself to have normal conformation for the breed within the show ring.

    He proves his health and "working ability" in some kind of dog sport, such as lure coursing or agility.

    And even then, the one and only purpose I would breed him for is to get puppies for myself, with the intent and ability to keep every single one if needed. This is not to say I wouldn't give some away or sell to approved families (this is how we got him after all!), but the primary purpose would be improving the breed and bringing dogs into the world for our own use. I do not mind at all if someone wants to breed their dog, as long as it is planned, the animals they are using are healthy, and there is a specific purpose for the litter they have planned (aside from the usual "experience the miracle of birth" crap). Blah, sorry for the longwinded rant.
     
  10. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

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    ROFLMAO!!!! And yes, I definitely buy the story that it was just a 'joke' put in there for kicks. Suuure. ;)
    Jessie, I guess no one told you that your Chis need to be kept in a cage and fed grain.

    Hey Romy--I didn't know you got a dog. Did I miss the post about Strider?:confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  11. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    i found an interesting study regarding the effects of spaying and neutering. i have seen the data in several different places, however they all are referencing the same source.

    i woud appreciate anyone who can either prove or disprove this.


    from http://saveourdogs.net/health.html

    from http://www.mmilani.com/commentary-200509.html

    PDF of Dr Hahn's study that is mentioned in the website above.
     
  12. shawnawhitewolf

    shawnawhitewolf New Member

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    I doint know what to say fore as i go.I doint fix my boyes one reason i lost two of them to to a butch spay were she bleed to death in hosp i lost my faith in that im sorry if i **** enty on off
     
  13. ron

    ron southern fried mush

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    I've read a few different studies and synopses conducted by research vets on the health risks of neutered and spayed dogs. One did account for the predominance of some health problems related to breeds, such as Goldens being prone to cancer and Hermangio. The risk was elevated if the dog was altered before 1 year of age. And giant breeds can suffer bone plate growth problems if altered before two years. But, in neither analysis did they recommend not neutering. They simply advised to forestall neuter/spay until at least 14 months for small and medium breeds and at least 18 months for really large and giant breeds. And that special consideration must be shown for breed related problems. And that, in some cases, not enough data is present to form solidified conclusions.

    Also, in saying that speuter led to weight gain and diabetes, what is not accounted for is the lack of exercise and good diet. A number of people I know who have altered pets, they never increased exercise as the animal got older. A walk that wore out a 6 month old puppy does nothing for a two year old. And I know a hunter with a Lab and he thinks Ol Roy is just fine to feed to his dog who will be expected to work on hunts.

    I had Shadow altered at 2.5 years. He is 26 inches to the shoulder and 65 pounds. Health benefits are secondary. I had him neutered to prevent unwanted litters. He doesn't care about any alpha status, per se. He really likes female dogs. One thing that did change after neuter was that he quit humping.

    I don't imagine him "missing" sex or his spark plugs. He's not human. Humans have the ability to control their reproduction. Dogs do not. As for being down, he was morose the day after surgery and I'm fairly convinced that it wasn't due to surgery. It was due to being in a kennel overnight at the vet's. Kennels will make him crap himself. He was morose because he thought he might be left there. When I made him some steak, he was back in the game. He knew he was home again.

    I did not notice any change in aggression level and those issues were dealt with by training. Some studies show that altering does not affect aggression. Therefore, neutering can't cause it either. Or it does cause aggression and can also cure it. You can't have one without the other.

    That's my two cents.
     
  14. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Good post, Ron.

    I'm not an advocate of the pre-maturity speuter if it can be avoided. I know rescues really don't have the luxury of knowing that the adoptive families will be responsible so they have to assure that it's done in a timely fashion, but, when possible, I'd choose to wait until the animal is mature.
     
  15. ron

    ron southern fried mush

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    I sometimes think some of this debate could be resolved by postponing but not necessarily doing away with altering. But that still requires people to be competent enough to keep intact animals until they are altered.

    We have a chainlink fence that Shadow could possibly get out of but never has. But that wouldn't stop a determined loose female from getting in if she wanted to. Shadow is deathly afraid of kennels. My wife and I both have to work away from home. The only choice is to have him in the backyard, for maybe 8 hours. Tie him out or a zip line? In some places, not here, you can only have your dog tied out for an hour or two. And a zip line? He has chewed through a harness when he was younger and can pull out of his id collar. And he needs his zoomies. He has to get over 30 mph a couple of times a day.

    In any case, neutering him was the responsible thing to do at the time and I still think it is. And my personal opinion, not including some health risks, is that non-breeding pets should be altered. Some may say it's not natural. Neither is topical flea treatments, vaccinations, kibble or any kind of balanced meal, or agility events where we expect a large dog to go through a tunnel rather than bound over it, as he would do if left to solve that problem himself. Docking is not natural, either. But then, many of the breeds we have are directly due to man's control. Dogs with splitting tails that must be docked would never have existed as a breed with that problem if we had not done the "unnatural" thing of creating that breed.
     
  16. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    My opinion is that if you are responsible and confident enough in your ability to keep your dog from getting/making another dogs pregnant then try and wait until maturity to neuter. If not then please fix your pet before he can reproduce (unless you are a responsible breeder). I suppose if you can keep from reproducing then you can keep him intact as long as you want, but health benefits seem to be the highest when you do neuter but wait until maturity (since most of the intact dog related cancers happen in older dogs, keeping intact forever can be more dangerous health wise than neutering really early).

    although I've read you still may want to spay females early, I'm not really sure why, it might be because of Pyo risk.
     
  17. ron

    ron southern fried mush

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    And, I certainly don't want to imply that people keeping intact pets are irresponsible. Many have valid reasons for doing so. Show, breeding, competition and work, and breeding. Health risks where the health is at greater risk than having a litter. Some really do have a personal thing against altering. And as long as such people can competently keep intact pets, I suppose that's okay. But for the public at large who are just not as savvy, pets should be altered. And any pet adopted from a rescue or shelter will be altered. No, our practice of altering didn't stop those dogs from coming in. But it will stop the rescued dogs from having even more litters. It's like putting direct pressure on a gutshot. It will have to do until something better (i.e. education) comes along.
     
  18. Erica1989

    Erica1989 New Member

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    As someone actively involved in rescue, I am for neutering. Obviously, if people were different, and more responsible, I don't think we would have such the problem that we have. Right now, in my house, I have 1 neutered 2 year old mutt and a 5 year old inact aussie. The aussie is housetrained, he does not mark on walks, he does not hump everything with 4 legs (or 2!) - he's well mannered, and I tolerate nothing but. He goes to the park, and does not cause a problem. If he were with someone else, I cannot guarentee his behavior would be the same. I monitor and train - constantly.

    However - I do not concider myself the general public, nor is this dog going to remain intact. And I think the general public needs altered pets. They are just not responsible enough. And if pro spueter campains are whats needed - so be it. Snip away!

    If you have the ability and common sense to house an intact dog - go for it. I am not neccesarily for early spay/neuter (although, in resuce we have to) - but I do feel it's something that needs to be done at some point for the health of the pet.
     
  19. ma-vie-en-vert

    ma-vie-en-vert New Member

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    I know when you say "real breeders" you're not just talking about "good breeders" but don't most reputable breeders say that you have to surrender the dog back to them in their contract? So wouldn't that prevent some dogs in shelters?
     
  20. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Yes, and many of the good breeders that I know microchip all their puppies and keep their names as secondary contact on the chips so they will be notified if a dog they have produced is ever dumped at a shelter, and can come bail it out.

    Also, keep in mind that while many wonderful adoptable dogs are put down, that huge number quoted by die hard spay neuter advocates also includes owners who brought in sick/injured/biting dogs to be put down because they couldn't afford a vet visit...and feral dogs who were unadoptable, dogs with temperament problems who were unadoptable, entire litters of stray puppies infected with parvo or distemper.

    It's not a straightforward "X number of dogs are killed each year because there aren't enough good homes". An unknown percentage (because no records are kept to differentiate between the different situations) are PTS because they are unfit companions..due to temperament or health issues...or weren't even stray/surrendered to begin with the pound was just the only place their family could afford to put them down when the quality of life got bad enough to let them cross the bridge.

    That being said..most companion dogs probably shouldn't be kept intact because most people don't have the inclination to supervise and manage them to prevent unwanted breedings.

    Strider is intact, he's only a year and a half so still growing but we have no plans to neuter him at this point. I'm planning to show him, and going to do all the health tests necessary at 2 years partly because I want get a "snapshot" of what his health is like at that age and partly for his breeder's benefit so she will know how the health of her litter is doing. We don't have any behavioral problems with him whatsoever, he's a perfect gentleman and with me 24/7 so he doesn't have any opportunity to breed.
     

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