Please Help Me: for those feeding raw.

Discussion in 'Dog Food and Recipes' started by Julie, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. Julie

    Julie Are You Blowing Me Off?

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    Okay I have given the occasional raw bone, but now due to the broad food taintings and poisonings... I feel this could be my last choice, I do not feel comfortable feeding my dogs Kirkland after what I have been reading today (at least until this gets straightened out). I feel the bag they are working on now is fine, but I do not want to take the chance of buying more, when diamond has recalled some of their foods. This bag is almost empty, so I will have to act quickly. I have alot of meat in my freezer, some of it may be a little old to feel comfortable to feed to my family... would it be okay to feed to the dogs?

    Can someone please give me something simple and complete I can follow until I get started? I know this has been talked about and have read alot of threads about it... But I am talking simple, What should I feed say the first week? Pretend you are talking to a child. :D
    My dogs weigh:
    Charlie 93
    Shiloh 70
    Rocket 70 (high energy)

    Thanks for any replys,
    Julie.
     
  2. midnightbirdgirl

    midnightbirdgirl New Member

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    General rule of thumb:
    You need to feed your dog 2% to 3% of the dog's ideal body weight, so an 80 lbs dog would be fed 1.6 to 2.4 pounds of raw meat and raw bones
    covered in raw meat per day, 20% of their diet needs to consist of offals (organ meats and the like). So really it is not that much, and it is pretty cheap. Of course you need to adjust accordingly as to their individual activity levels.
    We use mostly poultry. Freeze before feeding and then thaw in the microwave however much we need at a time.
    MBG
     
  3. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    your first weeks EASY!
    this is based on what im currently working through with some experienced raw feeders and are their suggestions. IM STILL LEARNING MYSELF

    2% of the dogs ideal weight for a normal activity level, up to 3% ideal weight for a high energy dog.

    the first week, that weight will be 100% chicken backs (or quarters)
    assuming thier poop is ok move onto the second week if not generally just keep up that weeks regime untill the stool firms (adding baked sweet potatoe will help very runny stools at ANY time.)

    in your second week you want to introduce another easy food Turkey Necks are a favorite amongst those ive talked to.
    chicken backs/quarters 2, days then turkey neck the next, then chicken back/quarters 2 days then necks the next. ect.

    third week add a ground meat, ground turkey or beef is good (i prefer beef if you using turkey necks cause i like some veriety.)
    i was told with the ground meal do your ground meat, add 1 egg (inc shell and a small baked sweet potatoe)
    on one day during the week, add your ground beef meal.

    4th week, add a fish meal, most of those ive talked to use canned salmon and makerell and add a small baked sweet potatoe, but you want that meal about 2 days away from your ground beef meal.
    ie chicken monday, ground beef tuesday, chicken wednesday, turkey necks thursday, fish friday, (see that 2 day gap) though im sure if you wanted to do differently thats fine, and some people DONT add fish they just add salmon oil to the dogs diet but i like the veriety.

    now you have your BASIC diet.
    thats it...

    now say you have acess to rabbit and deer and beef ribs ect, now your dogs got his full spectrum down you can pick one of the chicken days and add some rabbit, deer, goat, beef ribs, pork ect one week, see how the dogs do with that, try a different RMB each week untill the dogs are used to each meat your gonna feed and alternate those out, id do the "other" meats once a week in place of the chicken.

    ive been told to introduce organ meat (liver, kidney and pancreas) VERY slowly and not untill after the first month. and by little i mean 2-3 times a week (start with once a week) they each get a THIN slice or small cube. too much organ will be fairly quickly responded by runny poop lol so youll know pretty quickly if its too much too soon. organs will NEVER be fed as a meal but instead a little bit should be added to another meal 2-3 times a week.

    Green tripe is also somehting many people add after the first month, its very good for them and in the method i personally prefere to feed would be the only source of vegatable matter. its aparetnly pretty stinky though and NOT a must have. fruit and vegies are ok as an occasional treat but many dont even bother adding vegies or fruit to thier dogs diet (on the premis they would only eat those things if their prey animal had reacently eaten them hence the green tripe)


    as for knowing if your feeding enough, just watch your dogs figure...if your dogs looking a little slim, give a little more, getting a little rotund cut back a bit.

    the other question would be how do i knwo meat to bone, the poop should be small and firm after there used to it, and should be easy passed and after about 2 days outside turn white and turn to dust.
    if the poop is very dry and powdery and whitish theres too much bone, add more muscle meat.
    if the poops a little too soft, too much muscle meat add more bone.

    ive always been told its 100% safe to thaw your meat in the fridge (or even counter top) overnight for the next mornings meal and then during the day for the evening meal, so dont worry about having to keep it frozen up untill justbefore feeding time.

    the biggest peice of advice i was given was KEEP IT SIMPLE. if you cant freely get rabbit of deer, dont introduce it as a diet staple, use the meats redily available, and dont try to add too much complication to it.

    this is the way ive been taught to raw feed over the past year of info searching, and is what im going to be switching my dane pup on once he comes home.

    hope that helps.

    http://www.eastwooddanes.com/SampleMenu.html
    the sample menue here is essentiall what ill be following and while its a dane sight should translate to any breed so long as you keep the weights according to each of your dogs.

    hope that helps!
     
  4. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Foxy, I just have to say, that link you posted is the GREATEST! :hail: If that doesn't convice someone I don't know what will! LOL
     
  5. Melissa_W

    Melissa_W New Member

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    Foxy, that was a GREAT post! Someone should sticky that. :hail: :hail:
     
  6. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    *blushes*
     
  7. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    I agree, Melissa. Sticky
     
  8. sam

    sam New Member

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    Yikes. I have never heard or read anyone suggesting 2 weeks straight of just backs and/or necks before. There is hardly any muscle meat in necks and backs. That is not balanced and is very constipating. You need some muscle meat in there. I would only feed RMB (necks/backs) as one meal per day maximum. Chicken quarters have much more muscle meat from what I gather (I don't feed quarters)

    I also only feed 5-10% offal. My dogs won't eat a meal of raw liver (can't say I blame them- it's nasty) so I use offal patties which have ground up liver , heart and other organs and add that to a RMB meal--- waaaay less gross. Offal tends to give dogs the runs so I would start that a bit later once you know how things are sitting. If your dog is still going to eat some kibble your offal requirement is much lower.

    I also would stick to one protein source or protein sources you know your dog does well with until you know how your dog is doing on raw. (ie chicken and turkey if that's what's in their kibble) I made the mistake of doing too much variety too soon and ended up with a dog with serious yucky-d and probably a very upset tummy.

    I would also aim for less fatty cuts of meat at first whenever possible. I used to pull the excess fat off backs or pay a big price, now it's fine. Raw diets tend to have much higher in fat than kibble and that's fine, just take a while for a dog's body to adjust.

    Ground meat carries a much higher bacterial load so be careful with that - if you can feed cheaper cuts of meat that aren't ground, that's much safer bacteria wise.

    Amount to feed seems to vary hugely by the dog. My dogs eat almost 3%.(they weigh roughly 50lbs and eat 1.5 lbs in a day) the Golden we looked after was HUUUUGE on 2%. I would err on the side of underfeeding for the transition to reduce the chance of yucky-d.

    There are several types of fish that aren't safe to feed raw- I'm not sure what they are. I give the dogs cooked fish from our leftovers and canned fish. They also get fish body oil every day, vit E (if you supplement with fish oil/omega 3's , you need to add vit e at 100iu per 25 lbs of bodyweight daily) I used to add kelp for trace minerals and iodine bit I feed Orijen kibble almost half the time right now and it's very high in iodine.

    Hope that helps.

    I like the site of my local premade raw company for nice concise info www.mountaindogfood.com The only thing I don't agree with on the sit is that you shouldn't ever feed kibble if you feed raw- that's myth. Although I don't tend to feed raw and kibble on the same day.
     
  9. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    the backs should NEVER be mostly bone, backs SHOULD be about the same meat to bone ratio as quarters or at least the backs i have gotten in the past to look at have if anything a tad more muscle meat than quarters. the bones are also much smaller/softer.
    notice how i also say backs or quarters, and that necks should only be 1-2 meals a week during that 2nd week period.
    youll also notice that i do state organ meat should never be a meal in itself but instead added to another meaty meal.
    Heart is also considered a Meat not an organ.

    i personally dont like premade, but thats personal preference. its hard to get here and VERY expensive for what it is.

    the guys who have been mentoring me and using this method of feeding have been doing so for years, most of which switched from the barf diet.
    again, im a beginner and one thing i HAVE noticed with raw feeding is there are ALOT of different opinions. i got reamed on one site because i said i wasnt planning on feeding any other veggies than green tripe, because "thats not balanced" or another who told me feeding fresh meats wasnt safe and that i HAD to feed the premade, another who told me its 100% safe to mix kibble and raw in the same meal (of none compatible types)
    so...

    chicken backs and quarters tend to be THE staple of most raw feeders in terms of chicken.
    chicken backs have more in trems of structural bone, but when compared to the leg bone in the rear quarters its about the same.

    you also REALY dont have to worry too much about the bacteria in raw meat as the dogs natural stomach ph is so high itll kill most any bacteria that goes in there.
     
  10. DanL

    DanL Active Member

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    Good info, but no way should 20% be organ meat. A couple ounces 2-4 times a week for a large dog, maybe 1-2 times for a small dog.
     
  11. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    who said 20%?
    i said a tiny slice, and sams got 5-10%
     
  12. Mulligan

    Mulligan Eat-Walk-Poop-Sleep-ahhhh

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    Thanks so much for that Foxy. :hail: I am new here and have been reading like crazy. I've been hemmin' and hawin' about going full raw (started with NV medallions first).

    Your post is just the info I have been looking for. I know there are lots of other posts to read through, but this is so concise and detailed. I also loved the link. Those dogs are very lucky to have such caring people raising them.

    Earlier tonight I gave our little guy his medallions. I had been very skittish about raw because, well, it's raw. I kept thinking he's so little (Scotty/Maltese mix), how could he ever eat a whole chicken leg? How could he crush the bone? Plus it's yucky. Well, as I was getting ready to cook dinner for us humans in the house, I decide to try it. I gave him a chicken leg out on the deck. First he smelled it and licked it and then he...went to town!!! He chewed the skin and meat and then crushed the bone. The crunching sound was so cool. He was finished in about 2 minutes. It was a sight to see. The best part is that I wasn't squeamish at all. It looked so natural and I felt so proud, of both of us-lol.

    So, your post comes at the perfect time. Thanks again and good luck to all those starting raw. If I can try it, you can too.
     
  13. DanL

    DanL Active Member

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    Midnightbirdgirl said 20%.
     
  14. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    wow, Dan, thanks for pointing that out, i completly missed that! wow, blonde moment for the redhead i think.

    Mulligan: thanks, i wish the chis would be more enthusiastic about raw, id love to switch them over, they enjoy their recreational bones, and love an occasional wing, but otherwise they wont touch it. im kinda hoping once they see the dane pup eating raw they'll decide they want it too, but if not, ehh, there happy and healthy on kibble and the occasionall raw treat im ok with that lol.
    its amazing though especially with the little guys, i thought the same! lol
     
  15. Melissa_W

    Melissa_W New Member

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    Thanks for the additional points, sam! :)
     
  16. fillyone

    fillyone But please, call me Barb

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    I never thaw in the microwave.
    Bone in meat it's not a good thing to cook that bone!!!
    I have in a pinch thawed in the sink with some barely warm water.
     
  17. midnightbirdgirl

    midnightbirdgirl New Member

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    We do about 20% organ meats, Our Vet and other sources have suggested so. She does not have a loose stool, so I am assuming she is doing fine. We have been doing raw since she was 10 weeks old, she is now a year.
    We do not do BARF, we do PREY-MODEL diet.
    MBG
     
  18. midnightbirdgirl

    midnightbirdgirl New Member

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    We thaw on 30% and the bone is never warm. Always take it out before it is thawed all the way. Once you get the hang of it, it isn't a problem...threw away a bit in the beginning though!!:)

    I would never ever give her a cooked bone.
    When in doubt, I toss it out.
    Since all meats, including fish must be frozen first, and we feed twice a day, the mic is a must for us.
    MBG
     
  19. Mulligan

    Mulligan Eat-Walk-Poop-Sleep-ahhhh

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    I hope he keeps liking it. I have to go to the store in the morning for some meaty bones.

    I am trying to imagine your chis with a dane pup, especially as he or she gets bigger, and bigger and bigger-lol. You are bound to have fun.
     
  20. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    Lol, i figure i have 1 extreem (my smallest is 3lbs) why not have another lol. hey it could be worse i COULD be getting an english mastif lol.
    the scary thing is, i know already, my 3lb male and 5lb female will STILL be the king and queen of the house, they already tell the 30lb cocker off when he gets too boisterous lol.

    ___

    to adress the microwave issue:
    personally i would never even partially thaw in the mircowave, its as safe to just thaw in the refigerator over night (for both meals of the day) or even on the counter top. (though we'll be a fridge thaw family thanks to our cats insistence that he take 2 bites out of ANYTHING left on the counter and the fact that a danes head can clear a counter within months lol)
    but again, its amatter of personal preference, i just worry i would over cook and being im a college student i cant afford to just throw out meat lol.
     

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