pitties and dog agression

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by daaqa, Mar 21, 2007.

  1. daaqa

    daaqa lurking near the surface

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    so just how cautious do you need to be with bullies and other dogs? i see a lot of pitt owners seem to have multiple dogs, whereas some people don't want to get a pitt because they already have dogs and are concerned about dog aggression.
    how do you know if a pitbull is going to be OK with other dogs? can all animal aggression be trained/socialized out of them? or is the "never trust a pittbull not to fight" motto true? do you always have to separate your dogs if you are leaving the room?

    i ask because i have a year or two before we get our next dog and i still am uncertain which breed i will be aiming for. i know which breeds i don't want, but that leaves many open for consideration. pitts weren't even on my "maybe list" until i started reading this forum.
     
  2. oc_spirit

    oc_spirit Snow Girl

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    A lot depends on the lines you get them from but even then its all in the individual dog. If I owned a breed who was known for dog agression I would never leave them unattended with another dog no matter how good they seem together when humans are around. All it takes is one of them to get a little too possessive over something and you can have a nasty fight break out. some dog agression in pits dont even "click" until they are a few years old. Others have it right away. Training and socialization do help tremendously but you dont exactly get rid of it, you just control it and modify the behaviour.
     
  3. ravennr

    ravennr ಥ⌣ಥ

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    Personally, I don't trust a Pit Bull not to fight. That's not to say that they all will, because I know for a fact that there are many many dogs out there who never show an ounce of dog aggression. But, there are many more who never show dog aggression and then begin to show it later in life.
    People with multiple Pits should know what they are getting into beforehand, and luckily, there are growing numbers of those who do understand. And mynay of those people can attest to the tragedies of the death of a dog because of a fight that nobody could have predicted. Between dogs that even cuddle with eachother everynight at the foot of their bed. And the sad thing is, there's really no way to tell if it will happen, or if it could happen again if it's already happened once or more than once.

    As OC said, training and socialization (and some good bloodline research, as well as breed research) are really the only deterrents if you will to dog aggression, other than just pure devotion to protecting this breed. This is one of the top reasons that people who want this breed cannot just decide for the first time on a complete whim of minor desire.
     
  4. Roxy's CD

    Roxy's CD New Member

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    I've got into this debate before.

    I have a poorly BYB pitbull who has shown no signs of DA to date in my home towards my bitch.

    In fact they recently got into their largest fight ever, leaving Hades with a gash on his head.

    What did he do? Took it on his back than came crying to mommy.

    I'm not going to say that it's all on the owner and training, because it isn't.

    I'm not going to say that every pitbull will one day seriously injure or kill another dog if left alone unattended.

    All I'm going to say, that in my household with my 1.5 year old pitbull (he's still quite young) to date, I have never witnessed any aggressive behaviours towards my bitch.

    Will I rule it out? Nope, but they are left unattended together, every now and again, I've taped them. They sleep...
     
  5. Sweet72947

    Sweet72947 Squishy face

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    There is a pit at the rescue shelter I volunteer at. When he first arrived he was still a puppy, only about 6 months old or so. Now he is about a year and 1/2. He got along with other dogs, but now that he's getting older his DA is starting to come out more (yes he is neutered). He plays with another pit mix, a female and his best buddy. But I wouldn't trust introducing him to any other dogs now. In fact, somebody said he's been playing rougher and rougher with that female. As pit bulls mature, their dog aggression can come out more. This pit isn't dog reactive though, because he is used to being walked on leash by lots of other dogs all the time.

    I also go and read a pit bull forum, and somebody recently posted a story as a lesson to others about how he came home and found his dog DEAD because his other dog had ripped it up. These were pit bulls who had lived together for years and were left unattended ONCE by an oblivious friend. Dog aggression is a very real part of pit bulls and should never be ignored. I'm not saying they can't ever live peacefully with other dogs, just NEVER leave them unattended together!
     
  6. adoptashelterpettoday

    adoptashelterpettoday New Member

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    You have to also realize this dog is in a shelter. I have known many dogs that were dog aggressive in the shelter, only to get them out and realize it was the shelter causing the dog aggression.

    I don’t have anything to add, I am interested to know the answer as well. I know for sure my next dog will be a pittie but I worry that when it gets older I will have to separate it from my other dogs, even when supervised. But I will most likely just get a 3+ year old pittie, since I have heard DA usually shows up around 2. It seems like no one on here has any problems with their dogs getting along.

    Although I don’t but know that I should, all dogs should (with mine) be separated when not supervised IMO. Not just pits. I can tell you, a fellow rescuer has had 3 small breed dogs killed when left unsupervised with other small breed dogs. I think the first time a yorkie, a pom and a lab mix killed the dog. The second time I believe it was a couple Shih Tzus who killed the other dog. Not sure about the third. She now keeps her dogs separated, but it just goes to show you, that ALL dogs should be separated when left alone (although again I don’t follow this rule even though I know I should..).
     
  7. Sweet72947

    Sweet72947 Squishy face

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    I know this is a possibility. We have had a few dogs adopted out who exhibited a lot of dog aggression at the shelter only to have their adopters give us updates saying these dogs had played with other dogs, for example, a black GSD mix who was adopted a few months ago who was DA. The adopters updated us and told us that she played with their relative's newfies!

    Most of our dogs, though, aren't aggressive to anything. And the ones who are DA, they came in DA. I've never seen one come in friendly to dogs and then become DA. Except the pit bulls, the one I mentioned above and another who is very dog reactive (but he WILL sit and stay if you are firm).

    (Btw, our dogs do not just sit in cages all the time. On the weekends they are walked by volunteers, and during the week the dog friendly ones are put into playgroups).
     
  8. DryCreek

    DryCreek New Member

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    APBT's tend to be very intelligent animals. With proper socializing from a young age, training and control, they can live with other dogs, usually. Every dog is different, no matter what the breed is. There are some that require no contact at all with other dogs and are dealt with on a crate and rotate schedule. There are many that have no problems their whole life. You need to be very dedicated to training and socializing them and expect to supervise their interactions with other animals at all times. Always be prepared to step in and take control of any iffy situations, even though your APBT may not have started the trouble, they are more likely to finish what was started. Knowing you dog well, and stepping in at the first signs of an issue before major problems start is best. If your bringing an APBT pup into a house that already has a dog in it, bring in one of the opposite sex. They tend to be more tolerant of them. Make sure they are fixed so as to remove any problems related to sexual maturity issues.

    You need to be very sure you are willing to put the time and effort into owning an APBT in a multi dog household before deciding to get one. There is no way to tell, especially with a pup, what level of dog aggression they may have. They may never show any signs, but if they do it's usually during their teen years. Some will show signs as early as 9 months, some not till 2-3 years. The average is about 18 months of age. I would never leave my dogs alone together, it's just not worth taking a chance on. It may be being over cautious, but in my opinion it removes all worries when you do so. Dogs act differently when you are not there, and if something starts when your not there to stop it, it's usually a horrible mess to come home to.

    Never expect your dog not to act like an APBT, it's part of the responsibility of owning them. If you leave the room for a bit, take one of the dogs with you, alternate which one stays or goes with you. Or crate them both.

    Finally, make sure you get your APBT from a shelter that temperament tests them, including dog on dog tests. Or purchase from a reputable breeder who temperament/health tests as well. Make sure you are allowed to see the parents, they can help give you an idea of what your pup will turn out like, and breeders of quality dogs have no problems showing off the parents. If a breeder won't let you see them, run, don't walk, away.

    Hope this helped some:)
     
  9. DryCreek

    DryCreek New Member

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    Just wanted to add.....

    If the APBT is to be a pet, please try the shelters first. Many APBT are not adopted due to the bad press they get.

    If you do go the breeder route, I would suggest staying away from the ones that advertise old school blood or from gamebred lines. It's not that they don't make good pets, but they are more along the lines of working dogs and might tend to have more dog aggression issues. Breeding out that trait is not as important to breeders of working dogs as those that breed just for show.
     
  10. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I'm just thankful that there are people who will take on these dogs . I personally wouldn't . There are many other breeds I wouldn't either though , so it's nothing against pitties
     
  11. daaqa

    daaqa lurking near the surface

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    yeah, i don't think i could handle the constant concern and supervision. we plan to get an acreage, and i would like to be able to let the dogs run in a large fenced area without having to be out there every single moment or keep them separated constantly.
    thanks for the info and honesty, everyone. they are beautiful dogs, and in every other way i like what i read about them and think they are beautiful... but this would be too much of a concern for our lifestyle. we also have tons of friends with dogs. i know this one person who has a boxer who cannot handle being around any other dogs at all. so when a bunch of us want to take the dogs and kids for walks, she can't bring hers or we can't bring ours. we are super social and travel and go camping a lot. and, yeah, i just don't think it could work for us. it's sad, because they seem like such wonderful dogs and i would love to be a part of the help to prove the breed is worth saving. guess i will have to add them to the list of dogs we won't be considering.. :(
     
  12. Rosefern

    Rosefern New Member

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    Me, too, Grammy. I would probably never have an APBT or AmStaff. And there are a lot of other breeds I'd never have, too. But then again, I also said that I'd never have a dog smaller then the cat.

    *stares at Pepe*

    *looks at Lillian*

    Oops.

    -Rosefern
     
  13. daaqa

    daaqa lurking near the surface

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    rose, i was anti-anklebiter for years. now i have sylvie... and now i want a chi!

    i'm beginning to wonder how many dogs i will end up with :D ... we definately want a big dog in the next couple years. sheesh.
     
  14. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I was NOT going to EVER have toy dogs.....

    well..... sometimes you can never predict where you'll end up. :)
     
  15. Amstaffer

    Amstaffer New Member

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    To those who will never own a Pit or an Amstaff...you will never no the most pure love a K9 nine has to offer, that is my most humble opinion and yes I am very bias. I have been around a of dogs and I have never seen a more devoted and emotionally tuned in breed. I just wish more "good" people like many of you would give them a chance. Just think of the abuse they take and yet are fantastic dogs.


    On trusting a Pit Bull not to fight. I think 75% of it is how you raise them and socialize them. 25% is the genetics.

    I have one female (Athena) who is the product of people breeding for fighting as she was rescued during a raid on a fighting ring in Freeport IL. She was a puppy in her mother's belly. She has been left a long with other Bullies, Herding breeds, Hunting breeds and one toy breed and at the age of 10 has yet to get into even one scrap. Sal my Amstaff was neutered just before his 6th birthday and has been left with the same groups as Athena with never any problems.

    I trust mine not to fight, call me crazy but Athena is 10 and Sal is days from his 6th birthday and I think I can confidently say they are safe to leave with other dogs.

    I think you have to know any dog you have regardless of breed. My two dogs are the most stable and trustworthy of my whole families dogs (many different breeds). It is difficult for us humans but we have to look at even dogs as individuals, generalization are dangerous.
     
  16. Rosefern

    Rosefern New Member

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    Don't we all think that about our own breed? :)

    To those of you who who will never have a Golden: You will never know the true meaning of the word "companionship". They live and breathe to love you.

    And for those non-Chi people: They really are a large dog, forever trapped in a small body.

    :)

    -Rosefern
     
  17. Roxy's CD

    Roxy's CD New Member

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    Amstaff, I agree.

    And I'm not really biased to be honest. Will I ever get another pitbull? First off it's illegal where I live, and secondly I just don't think the chances of getting a pitbull with a personality just likes Hades are likely, and nothing else would do.

    So, I'm not biased. (Even though I do own a pitbull) They aren't my "favourite breed" per se.

    And I have to agree that are incredibly emotionally dialed and loving creatures. He's the most cuddly dog I've ever met. Period. He ALWAYS wants to be close, snuggling, being hugged, whatever. If his skins' on mine, he's the happiest dog in the world :)
     
  18. adoptashelterpettoday

    adoptashelterpettoday New Member

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    Again I would like to bring the fact up that I know of 3 dogs who were killed in the last 6 months by small breed dogs. All dogs should be supervised when together, especially dogs who dont know eachother. It's not just pits.

    ETA-I just read your post more closely, I would not suggest leaving any small breed dog alone with a large breed dog. Just my personal thing, but when I foster small dogs, I NEVER let them play with my big dogs. It's too risky. Yes, some big dogs will get along with small dogs, but even in play it could get too rough and result in large medical bills. This is just my opinion, I am sure people on the board have a large dog and small dogs and leave them alone together but I just wouldnt recommend it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2007
  19. Amstaffer

    Amstaffer New Member

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    Its a Bully thing....you just wouldn't understand ;)

    also I have been around a lot of other breeds. One breed I was very close to...I owned three; They love you and would die for you but they don't have this super craving to be with humans... at least not in my experience. The human bond of a Pit is hard to explain and even harder to beat.
     
  20. DryCreek

    DryCreek New Member

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    I agree Amstaffer. I've owned a few different breeds before, but once I had APBT's and experienced their bonding with humans, I've yet to find another breed that comes close. Sure, they can be dog aggressive, ( and not all are, as you know ) but they were bred for many many years to accept humans instead of dogs as their pack and it's created a unique dedication and devotion that I think compares to none.

    I wouldn't trade the small hassles of dedication to supervision for the world. It's more than worth it in my eyes.;)

    Think about it this way, would owners of the APBT band together so strongly to fight for their rights to own this breed, and put up with harassment and discrimination like they do, if the dogs were not so special. It would be so much easier to change breeds. But I can't, and I can't explain to others why. But once you've experienced them, it all becomes crystal clear LOL.
     

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