I expect this conversation will be lively and I hope we can all keep it civil (isn't this the way all horrible arguments start?). One of my friends recently asked on facebook: Is the split in Border Collies so bad that we may one day have three separate breeds? What would we call them? Speed Demons, Herding Masters and Pretty Black and White dogs? I was looking at pictures of 'breed' BCs over the last few days, and I swear, they look nothing like the BCs I see at agility and herding. Their temperaments are much different too... is this really how new breeds get made? I have seen similar comments/questions here. Why are there such distinct types in BCs? Here was my response: Honestly? This is going to sound horrible, and maybe I'll get tons of hate mail for it... but why does it matter? I mean- the working people still breed working dogs, the show people breed show dogs, the agility people breed agility dogs, etc. Believe me, the horribly overdone teddy bear fluffy stumpies bother me as much as you, but they really don't affect my life much (other than beating my dogs at dog shows, which is whatever... I do it for fun anyways). I have said exactly what you've said... I've been there. I'm at the point in my life where I just gave up on the idea that every BC person would go back to the breed's roots and we'd all sing Cumbaya together... because it's not going to happen. I have decided that I will keep with my lines, and if anyone specifically asks my opinion on BCs I'm happy to tell them exactly how I feel- but I don't expect everyone else to agree with me. I guess I just feel like people have to make up their own mind about the type of BC they're getting. I personally would not choose to get a dog from "sport" lines- they are not my type of dog and I don't do agility that much, but if someone else does... what do I care if they get a sport bred dog? Its not going to change my lines at all. If someone really wants to win big time in the show ring... I don't expect them to go out and buy a dog from the local working breeder (of course, some would argue that someone who wants to win in the show ring shouldn't get a BC, but I think we should just accept that the fluffies are here to stay). Interestingly enough, the standard almost perfectly describes your average working dog. The problem is, people *do* ignore that standard, and breed for the fluffy stumpies- and I can tell you exactly why. The AKC group ring tends to put up more "generic" show dog- flashy, big round eyes, big side gait, etc., so the BCs who win in the group rings tend to be that type. Suddenly everyone wants that, because after awhile breed ring wins aren't satisfactory- more is better and our breeds change because of that. It's a problem with the system, and we can't have expected it to go any differently. When you judge breeding quality off of looks alone, of course you're going to end up with dogs who are bred for... well, looks alone. Temperaments change quickly because a sharp, intense temperament can be problematic in tightly packed rings where dogs are expected to stand still and not react to the highly stressful environment around them. The type of dog that is easiest to show is one who is fairly calm, easy going and generally low drive. Structure changes because they are no longer being excluded from a breeding program for faults that would be detrimental to a working dog (I.E. cat feet, very short hocks, barrel chests and overangulated rears). So, yes, this breed does have variety, and I've learned to be fine with that- like I said, not every line is fit for every job, and in the world we live in today it is reasonable that not everyone is going to have a highly talented herding dog. The BC is now (generally) bred for one of three things: The show ring, sports (agility and flyball) or working. Of course there are always exceptions, people who tend to like a more well-rounded dog who would succeed at all three things- but tends not to go to the highest levels. I am sure the other BC people on here will have some insight too, but I thought this would be an interesting thing to discuss. Is it wrong to diverge from the breed's intended purpose, knowing full well it will change the breed? Does it happen to every breed? Can it be avoided? Is it a normal thing for a breed to develop and change with modernization?