On her way out, :(

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by tears_n_my_dogbowl13, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. tears_n_my_dogbowl13

    tears_n_my_dogbowl13 New Member

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    A little background: Daisy is a 7month old Beagle/shepherd mix. We've had her since she was 8wks old, she was a stray/rescue on the verge of death when she was found. She has "anxiety attack"-like episodes when she sees anyone outside our family. We've socialized her since we've had her, so she's not new to meeting people. Jumping on anyone has always been discouraged, so has mouthing, scratching and lounging on furniture. She's never been allowed to do these things. She has SERIOUS behavioral problems. We've contacted our vet, 2 trainers that agreed to see her as an "emergency," and a behaviorist, and NONE of them know why our dog is acting this way. It's not medical, it's not because of training, and the behaviorist is absolutely perplexed.

    I could've sworn it was medical. She was very sick before we got her, then the shelter misdiagnosed a skin infection as "flea bites" we've been fighting that since we've had her, then she had to have her anal glands removed. The vets didn't really do a "full workup" this last time we took her so perhaps I need to request one, however, they said she was in perfect health. Both the trainers observed our dog and our interaction with her, and assurred us our training is not the problem. I asked them about crating her when people came over, and they agreed that she should not be allowed out if she couldn't control herself. (We did find out we should say "off" instead of down when she's jumping though.) The behaviorist is confused. Daisy is obviously a happy animal, she shows absolutely no aggression to anyone or anything (even our rat.) She said either Daisy has SEVERE deep-rooted anxiety about being abandoned, along with a problem recognizing me as the alpha female, or she has some neurological disorder or imbalance. The reason she's not sure if it's anxiety or medical is because Daisy has no aggression. She's never bitten or even growled at me, nor does she have a problem with being left alone. Daisy has gotten progressively worse this past month though. We were getting ready to take her for a walk saturday, and she started shaking uncontrollably and drooling when we put her on the leash. She could barely walk because of the shaking. When my husband sat down with her, she started jumping straight into the air and yelping and whining, still shaking. Fearing a seizure, we took her to the vet. Again, the vet said she was fine, no medical problems at all.

    We've realized a problem with her dominance, which we thought was under control until about a month ago, has resurfaced with a vengance. She barks anytime my husband pays attention to me. If hugs me, she barks and jumps on him, if he sits with me, she tries to shove in between us. Then the final straw was last night when my husband and I were talking, Daisy was jumping on my husband (her usual method of attention getting), he kept telling her no, off. We kept laughing and talking and Daisy sandwiched herself between our island and me and squatted and PEED all over my feet. She then walked back to my husband and sat down, looking up at him. I immediately started crying. She wasn't showing my husband she had to go potty. She goes to the door, whines and gives us a "look" when she has to go potty. She was only mad because I had his attention. Then this morning, I wouldn't let her out of her kennel until my hubby left for work(about 15min. after he wakes up, lol.) When I let her out, she ignored me until she wanted to go potty. When she came in, I started making breakfast, first making sure all the doors were shut (Daisy isn't allowed to be alone in any room because of "sneak chewing"). When I finished, I couldn't find Daisy. I wasn't too worried because none of the little bells went off on our doors (we have alarms that let us know if the doors are opened because Daisy can open them.) Somehow, she opened our bedroom door (alarm didn't go off) and she chewed up 3 pairs of my shoes, one pair was my wedding shoes. Since our closet doors slide, getting to them was easy once she was in the bedroom. I was so furious! I cried and cried. I don't know what to do with this dog anymore. She has plenty of toys, attention, walks, and playtime with both my husband and me. Everyday I play with her for at least an hour, then we walk around base for an hour. I'm starting to think she's bi-polar or something. My husband and I have tried everything, one trainer suggested getting a shock collar since she wasn't associating bad behavior with nos, swats, sprays with water, or removal from the situation, therefore she continues the behavior, even though she knows it's bad. When she chews something, she will chew it, then try to hide it, then she acts ashamed. We still do positive reinforcement, both the trainers made sure we were doing this. We broke down and got a shock collar 2 days ago, but she doesn't even notice, just like she doesn't notice the nos, swats, or other corrections we give when people are over. We would give her positive reinforcement if she would stop jumping/nipping/scratching/crying. We took it back yesterday. I hated putting it on her, and hubby and I shocked ourselves first to see what it felt like since we were shocking her, no pain, but it was startling. I'm out of options. Our next step is a neurological exam. *sigh* We've now spent about $1250 in the past 3 months on our dog. We are starting to exhaust our savings for her, and we still have to prepare for our baby. Has ANYONE out there had these issues?
     
  2. Love4Pits

    Love4Pits Playful Husky Pup

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    I have to say first off that i am so so sorry that you are going through this with your girl. I just want to give you a hug and say it will all be ok but im not sure if it will.

    I have not ever had this problem personaly but i figured i would reply anyways. This could very well be neurological she does sound a bit out there in a way. She to me sounds like she would be better as a "one person dog". I know you must love her to put all this attention and money into helping her but it may be best for her and you and your future baby if you find someone in the family or your circle of friends who was willing to take her.I hate to say this because i would hate to have someone say this to me about one of my dogs but sometimes its the best thing.

    She sounds like she has some seriouse jealousey issues and i have a feeling it will only worsen when the baby arrives. This is of course unless someone on here can't help you first or you don't find yet anouther trainer who may be able to work wonders.Good Luck and hugs for you and Daisy.
     
  3. Debi

    Debi Moderator

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    I won't pretend to have any answers for you, but also just send big hugs for your frustration and stress. Sounds to me like you've done quite a lot to correct this problem. Also sounds like you just love her to the max. That being said, sometimes there is just bad breeding...just something to consider. My cat is truly a maniac, horribly mean. I had a medical work-up done on her, and it was the opinion of 2 vets that she is the product of bad breeding...probably inbreeding. I've only kept her (she's now 15) because she is a cat.......if she were a dog, it would have been too difficult...especially around children. I know you said your dog is not aggressive......but could you trust her around a child when she exhibits such jealousy when you are just talking to your husband? I'd be concerned at this point. She IS still young, tho....so there still may be some hope. IF it were a neurological disorder, perhaps there is medication or something. That's a difficult decision...to continue on if it is a financial burden, especially if there is a baby to consider. Hopefully someone here can give some help...Creature Teacher is so awesome. (course, then again you've done training and behavior) I just feel so bad for you. :( Here come those (((HUGS))) again. A beagle/shepard....she is an interesting mix.
     
  4. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    We really need to get Emma, the Creature Teacher in on this. She's got a very unique insight into some of these strange ones.

    I had a little Terrier that was severely jealous, but amazingly, she was very protective when my little sister was born. You couldn't have asked for a better dog with a baby!
     
  5. CreatureTeacher

    CreatureTeacher New Member

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    I'm going to send you an e-mail with my contact information so you can call me and we can talk about her. I sure hope I can help!
     
  6. tears_n_my_dogbowl13

    tears_n_my_dogbowl13 New Member

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    Thank you all so much. I feel REALLY bad because we may have to get rid of her. I love this little pup very much, and I'm afraid she'll grieve when we give her away. I am afraid of what may happen when the baby arrives. If we put the baby on the floor to play, will Daisy pee on him too? Will she bite or be pushy? I just don't know how to handle her. I've NEVER had a problem like this in the past with any animal I've had, and I grew up always having at least one dog, one cat and numerous other species sharing my space at any one time. Of those animals, quite a few were shelter rescues. Neither my husband or I have ever had to give up an animal before. I'm honestly afraid to get another dog if we have to give up Daisy. My husband would never go for it either since we've both had such a hard time with Daisy, and he LOVES dogs! We just can't believe what we've gone through with her. She's obviously intelligent and is capable of great love and loyalty, but we're not sure why she acts the way she does. I'm afraid that when I tell my hubby what she's done today he'll say no more and we'll either start making flyers or he'll insist she go back to the shelter, which is a kill shelter. She also chewed our garden hose in half in the few minutes it took me to go to the restroom when I let her out to potty, so she's not only destroyed 3 pairs of shoes and kicked her dog food all over our room for no apparent reason, she destroyed that as well. I mean, it's not like I lock her in a room all day or ignore her all day. If someone were to set up cameras, they would probably think I was nuts because I talk and sing (dorky I know) to her all day. AARG!! I feel like a bad dog owner.
     
  7. Love4Pits

    Love4Pits Playful Husky Pup

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    You Are Not A Bad Dog Owner

    I promise you. Everyone gets atleast one tough dog in their life that they may have to give up simply because its not working out. This is in no way your fault you've done to much for her to not be a good owner. And also don't turn yourself off completely to getting anouther dog in the future IF you do get rid of Daisy. I would wait until after you have your baby though and your comfortable and confident you can take on a dog again. But these are all your decisions to make not mine. But I think everyone will support whatever you do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2005
  8. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    What Pits said!

    Talk to Emma; if anyone can help you I think she can.
     
  9. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    We had a beagle at the kennels that was dumped on us..he was very little and had the most beautiful face i had ever seen. i gave him to Jim thinking I was doing a good thing for both the puppy and the man. It ended up that Buddy was inbred twice, a sister brother mix two generations.. he would not mind, he would not shut up..even the labrador would grab buddy by the head and shake him (we all know that Lab was thinking "shut up shut up shut up shut up" buddy was a horrible dog.he would walk around like he had flies in his brain after one of Garg's shakings..he had little knots on his head and we just didn't care. .Jim tried for years..fortuantely for Jim buddy had a heart defect as well. All that time and energy went for a dog that was just plain awful. I also adopted a 10 day old puppy from the pound. They don't nrmally let u take one so young, but my ex use to work there and I was good with a bottle. The rest of the litter and the mom died that night. I bottle fed that wretch..I loved his little self so, and he was crazy. If I wore a dress or some clothing he hadn't seen before he would lower his head and growl like he had never seen me before.. By the time he was a few months old he shook all the time..he broke my wrist, and my husband's finger..chewed up metal and ripped clothes. I truly think he was insane. I have bottle fed lots of babies from squirrels to puppies when there was no mum so it wasn't being seperated early, i think the dog was mental. One day while I was working in the garden, the baby in the playpen beside me, the dog was on the line outside with us (we had a fence but he jumped it) when suddenly he broke the dog line, jumped the fence and ran around the house. I grabbed the baby and ran after him. I saw him scope a lady out that was walking down the sidewalk half a block away and before I could even shout a warning he attacked her. He had never done anything like this before, he attacked her like he would have a deer. No barking or growling, just slide up there and laid the back of her calf open. She was walking up to the hospital for a checkup after her heart surgery. I caught the dog told the woman if I had a gun I would shot him here and now, called animal control and an ambulance for her..thinking she is going to sue us we are so dead....
    She never did, never even sent us a bill. To this day I don't know why.
    A dog should not "destroy the home" ,,I don't agree with the woman that said there are no bad dogs..yes there are, and bad people too.mental illness can create all kinds of situations, some that are not safe to live with. I am not saying that you should get rid of your dog, but if there are no answers, if nothing gets resolved, another thousand good dogs will die today in shelters. That is what I told Jim. He didn't have to let Buddy ruin his home. As to Spacy Casey the wonder dog, he did his 14 days at the pound and my idiot husband tried to tell me he deserved one more chance, and I said to what..rip open one of these children? no way that dog is coming back here ..so he found him a home at the one way junk yard. They say he is the best junk yard dog they ever had..runs across the tops of cars to chase things away..go figure..I hated that dog with a passion, and I am a dog person.
     
  10. tears_n_my_dogbowl13

    tears_n_my_dogbowl13 New Member

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    oh my. I don't think our dog would EVER attack anyone. She doesn't growl, well, she growled at a snowman once because she was afraid of it, go figure....She's never bitten out of spite or plain meanness either. She's only barked at people outside twice, one was a teenager walking through our yard with a large stick, and the other was a woman walking toward our house in the dark. Even those times she only barked and ran behind either me or my husband. I'm only afraid of what she may do to the baby because the baby will be smaller than her, she's not familiar with the baby and the baby will be getting a lot of attention from me and basically all the attention from my husband when he gets home from work since he works around 12-16 hour days. I don't hate Daisy either. And I don't think it's right to ignore a medical problem with a dog just because you don't like it.

    <he had little knots on his head and we just didn't care. .Jim tried for years..fortuantely for Jim buddy had a heart defect as well>

    If he really hated the dog that much he should have found it a new home or at least taken it to a shelter, even a kill one. That's better than letting the dog have an illness or other problem that could very well been making his behavioral problems worse. I'm guessing since he allowed the other dog to abuse Buddy, he didn't care if Buddy was hurting.
     
  11. becca_4321

    becca_4321 New Member

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    Smkie I have to agree with you. several yrs ago a stray beagle started hanging out at our fence, after a few days he hadnt left we decided he was homeless and would take him in to find him a home. Only problem was he was unadoptable. He was so fearful of people and everything around him. Even to eat he'd grab a mouthful, toss it away from the dish to eat it and look around as he quickly ate it, and growl. The slightest noise or movement would send him hiding somewhere refusing to come out.
    At first if anyone came over he'd run to hide. Wouldnt come out if anyone was near. But as time went on, he was becoming aggressive. He started digging his way out of the yard under the fence. We'd fill it. The only way to catch him was with the help of our dog. With each time he got out he became more and more aggressive acting, he started barking and growling at people. He'd go into their yards, Each time getting closer and closer to them. The last couple of weeks I had him I started tieing him when he was outside. I hate doing that but felt I didnt have any other options with him. He'd break free, dig his way out and we'd find him going after people again.

    The final straw for me was when I caught him going after a young couple with a baby. I lost it. I told my husband that is it, we will not keep him another day. He WILL BITE SOMEONE.

    We dont know what it was in his life that made him like that, if it was he was nuts or if he had been abused. But the older he got the worse he became and even I was starting to get nervous being around him. I knew that was a warning sign since I was the only person who could even get somewhat close to him. After 2 yrs of working with him and trying so hard to get thru to him I was finding myself not trusting him even around me. I to love dogs, any kind of animals but I cant have a dog that is mean.
     
  12. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    Please, Buddy was awful but jim really tried.. he paid lots of money for Buddy at the vet..the knots were self induced..He would walk right up to that big labrador, stick his snoze into garg's mouth and bark his brains out. He would have walked around dazed without being shook a little. Jim tried for years!!! They don't even know why Buddy lived as long as he did..he wasn't my dog anyway, I wouldn't have kept him in the first place. If I sound bitter, I have seen many good dogs go the bad way..when they should have had every chance in the world..then you take Buddy who will not learn, because he can't..it wasn't his fault..it was the stupid owner that allowed her dogs to innerbreed then dumped them on us at the kennel with the pretense to be boarding... Buddy didn't suffer a day in his life, he never shut up long enough to be anything but busy..barking. That and he ate the air..barked at it, then he ate it.. He had treats, a crate of his own he could go to anytime.as home anydog would have found wonderful...I have a lot of things to grumble at Jim for ,but how he took care of Buddy isn't one of them. The whole point of my sharing my experiences was because I have been there, where you have an animal that isn't "right" in the head, for whatever reason..bad breeding, a horrible life so bad that their minds are shattered, or their brain isn't wired right..whatever reason and it is in your home, you don't want to be mean, or give up, but the dog has everyone in tears.the situation isn't getting any better .it isn't a healthy relationship for anyone. If you have a dog that has issues that can be worked with great, but that isn't the case, where do you draw the line, 6 months, 1 year, 5? I kept Casey because NO ONE would want this dog. Dropping him off at the pound seemed wrong too, the second I saw him attack that woman was a second to late to realize my dog was mental case.
     
  13. MoparStar

    MoparStar Try not; DO or do not

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    We have a saying at my house... Butcher the bull the day BEFORE he breaks the fence. That said, a "mental" dog that is a danger to himself and others should be euthanized. I don't think your dog is dangerous at the moment. It is way too common with beagles to go generation after generation with no proper socialization. if the bitches back 5 generations were never handled properly they do not instill a respect for humans to their whelps. (yes, mamma dogs teach their pups things like this.) The inbreeding of hounds has always been an issue with all but the most responsible breeders. Inbreeding causes developmental issues, some physical, some mental. please note I mean inbreeding and not the line breeding of carefully selected and researched individuals, which is a well known and respected practice that often produces superlative results. Your dog is of mixed parentage, and there is no way for you to know what issues are manifest in the parents. I would advise you to seek out an appropriate home for your dog. There comes a time with SOME animals when you just have to throw in the towel, and while she may be wrong for you and your family, someone out there will think she is perfect, and if you love your dog you need to place her accordingly. It is hard to give up a dog. Let your mind and heart rest easy knowing you have tried harder than most would, Be honest with prospective owners about her issues, and hope for the best. It is common here in Michigan for our inbred beagle stock to have hydroencephaletic issues that causes erratic behavior that usually escalates over a period of 2-5 years from mania to downright instability and ferocity. A backyard breeder or an irresponsible pet owner who allows their dog to breed whenever, wherever with whoever does not have the training or experience to recognize defects that can (and more often than not, do) cause developmental and temperament issues and adress it immediately. If your heart is set on keeping your little girl, you need to know that she may never improve. Chances are she won't. Are you prepared to make the necessary adjustments in your life to protect yourself, family, public, and dog? Be honest with yourself. If the answer is no or I don't know then do everyone a favor and place her in a home that doesn't mind her insanity. I do not advocate taking a dog back to a kill policy pound. Hang some flyers on their bulletin board. If an appropriate home can not be found, and her behavioral issues do not improve or get worse then you may have to face the issue of euthanasia. Please make this a last resort, and have it done by a veterinarian, not in the gas barrel at the dog pound. Sometimes you just can not win with a dog, so a decision has to be made on what will give them the best possible chance at a happy life, and if that life does not include your home, so be it. I applaud you for seeking help when you knew you were over your head. Remember that it is not abandonment or giving up on your dog if you place them in a home where they can thrive and be happy. Hang in there!
     
  14. CreatureTeacher

    CreatureTeacher New Member

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    I've been working a lot with Tears N My Dogbowl13, and I think her pooch is doing much better! Hopefully we'll get an update on the forum soon.
     
  15. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    your awesome emma!
     

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