Ok, so do you train with or without treats? I'm confused... Need opinions..

[Dekka]

http://www.clickertraining.com/honorroll_test Some of these dogs have so many titles after their names they don't even fit on one line. So, if that style of training doesn't work, explain this, please.

They can't, so they won't.

I have JRTs that win in obed. Even have a few HITs and have won the obed at the JRT Can Nats 2 years in a row (there wasn't any this year) Kaiden is one leg away from his CDX and runs masters games/advanced standard in agility. But my positive accomplishments don't mean squat to some people .

 

[elegy]

I'm getting that coon tail from Clean Run.

awesome! i just ordered one. and a tshirt that says sit. stay. find me a boyfriend. bwahaha!

 

[MafiaPrincess]

I know a lady with a jrt who bought a clean run coon tail she tied onto the end of a riding crop so she can have it in front of her dog. They love it, Cider goes crazy for it. I destroyed an old rabbit fur hat I had and Smudge loves to tug and play with the pieces. Cider on the other hand turns her nose up. Poor girl has snobby tastes.

 

[ihartgonzo]

From the get-go, I've trained my dogs with a variety of rewards. Sometimes it's a treat, sometimes it's a toy, sometimes it's praise. The most important thing as that whatever it is, they are highly motivated and focused on ME... and I want them to consistently & quickly respond to commands, whatever the reward is.

 

[Xerxes]

i don't use treats ever. I want my dogs doing the commands because i said so not because they are going to get a treat or think they are going to get a treat. Bribery/luring are the same thing in my book.

My well behaved dog is glad that I don't have the same book that you do.

 

[BostonBanker]

I wonder where I could get the skin from a mouse carcass

Offer Khana's services to a mouse infested barn for a while? Meg caught one just today while we were at work - something tells me it wouldn't ship well, though!

 

[adojrts]

Coon and Fox tails can usually be purchased from most Furiers, check your local listings. I purchase coon and fox tails by the bag full and the price is typically about $20.00 for the bag of about 25 tails. Also check your Grandmothers closet for an old fur coat and start cutting!! (second hand stores oftne have them cheap as well..........lots of tugs per coat!!)
And if you really want them to tug on the fur, go to your local hunting store and purchase some fox or coon scent, use a couple of drops with equal portions of glyercine and put it on the tug.

Lynn

 

[noludoru]

I use whatever is available. For Middie often me putting on his collar is a reward for him, because he associates that with going outside (it's a low-level reward, though), and I can ask him to do something else for me to put on the leash, and do something else for me to open the door, wait for me to go out so then he can, etc. I do use treats, as good ones are motivators. Toys are a BIG thing around here... a cuz or ball or tug toy is practically heaven. So whatever he will work for is what I use.

A few lashes from my stave is all the motivation my dogs need. They snap to attention when they see the stave. One time I caught one of them giving me the finger while my back was turned, but they didn't know I could see their reflection in the glass door. That dog got many a lash that night, and I made him sleep outside in the rain chained up to a tire. That dog was my best dog ever after that night.

LMAO! Standing ovation for that one.

Bribe
1. money or any other valuable consideration given or promised with a view to corrupting the behavior of a person, esp. in that person's performance as an athlete, public official, etc.: The motorist offered the arresting officer a bribe to let him go.
2. anything given or serving to persuade or induce: The children were given candy as a bribe to be good.

Lure
1. anything that attracts, entices, or allures.
2. the power of attracting or enticing.

A Thesaurus lists the synonyms of words. Synonyms are words with similar definitions, but are not quite the same, such as bribe and lure. When trying to prove whether something is the same or not, most of use dictionaries. Common sense helps, too.

 

[adojrts]

Look down lol

 

[adojrts]

[

for your info our methods Have Saved a lot of dogs from shelters and death.*GASP* The trainers They went to were all P+ trainers and told them to put the dog down. Dog clubs have told some of them to put the dog down because of its aggressiveness. Any dog can be trained wether it be pit, ott, hound, shepherd,etc. Some might be a little tougher than others, but they are all the same: dogs.

QUOTE]


You have said this before and I asked you before PROVE IT, find the hard facts and PROVE IT. ( you didn't before and I highly doubt you will this time either)
The last study I saw, stated that many dogs ended up in shelters for aggression because NOTHING had been done with them as pups, NO TRAINING and the dog had lead a life of EVERYTHING IS FREE ( a permissive home), once the dog reached maturity and was no longer a cute little pup, people started expecting that same dog to behave and the dog backed up its position with some/alot aggression. I will see if I can find that study and I ll post it. And don't confuse a permissive home with a dog trained in +R, not the same on any level.

Also luring and bribery ARE the same BUT they are NOT the same as CORRECT REWARD based TRAINING.

BTW saw your little OB video...........how long have you been training now??? 4-5 months?--------dog doesn't know the job, had to be asked twice and was VERY worried about making a mistake, which it did.

 

[Purdue#1]

[

for your info our methods Have Saved a lot of dogs from shelters and death.*GASP* The trainers They went to were all P+ trainers and told them to put the dog down. Dog clubs have told some of them to put the dog down because of its aggressiveness. Any dog can be trained wether it be pit, ott, hound, shepherd,etc. Some might be a little tougher than others, but they are all the same: dogs.

QUOTE]


You have said this before and I asked you before PROVE IT, find the hard facts and PROVE IT. ( you didn't before and I highly doubt you will this time either)
The last study I saw, stated that many dogs ended up in shelters for aggression because NOTHING had been done with them as pups, NO TRAINING and the dog had lead a life of EVERYTHING IS FREE ( a permissive home), once the dog reached maturity and was no longer a cute little pup, people started expecting that same dog to behave and the dog backed up its position with some/alot aggression. I will see if I can find that study and I ll post it. And don't confuse a permissive home with a dog trained in +R, not the same on any level.

Also luring and bribery ARE the same BUT they are NOT the same as CORRECT REWARD based TRAINING.

BTW saw your little OB video...........how long have you been training now??? 4-5 months?--------dog doesn't know the job, had to be asked twice and was VERY worried about making a mistake, which it did.

1. How would using a treats show faith in our methods?
2. sorry the physical proof is here, in our dogs and their masters. Its not typeable unless you can teleport people and dogs through the internet.common sense
3. i don't remember on any of the vids i posted double commanding or correcting my dog. He had a perfect stay on one and on the other before the time warp had flawless sits and downs.
4. a title proves nothing to me. I don't care how long a dog's name is. The competition is in a small ring with nothing but dogs and he smell of food to distract them. BIG woopty doo!

now let me go through the thread so i don't leave out any questions....hmmmmm...no......not there...the silly dictionary thing.......I really need to get a new stave......boring.......nothing there............ Dekka is a slave to her dog........treat trainers have no backbone.......sly needs more chips in his diet.....nothing here..........................................................

 

[adojrts]

1. How would using a treats show faith in our methods?
2. sorry the physical proof is here, in our dogs and their masters. Its not typeable unless you can teleport people and dogs through the internet.common sense
3. i don't remember on any of the vids i posted double commanding or correcting my dog. He had a perfect stay on one and on the other before the time warp had flawless sits and downs.
4. a title proves nothing to me. I don't care how long a dog's name is. The competition is in a small ring with nothing but dogs and he smell of food to distract them. BIG woopty doo!

now let me go through the thread so i don't leave out any questions....hmmmmm...no......not there...the silly dictionary thing.......I really need to get a new stave......boring.......nothing there............ Dekka is a slave to her dog........treat trainers have no backbone.......sly needs more chips in his diet.....nothing here..........................................................

Prudue, it was the video that your dog was cowering to you during the sits/down, which you did ask twice because the dog DIDN'T go down all the way, and it was at an agility trial.

And what are you babbling on about Tiltes for?? and how long a name is??

Btw, I keep asking for proof of dogs in shelters and how they got there, I have no need nor desire to see your methods, been there done that, moved on to BETTER methods.

 

[Purdue#1]

I NEVER double commanded him on sits and downs. I just watched the video. he was not cowering either.

yep you really saw the behavior there. He was really cowering when i was telling him down and he was going on a down.

 

[houndlove]

Titles don't mean anything? Because the dog is alone in the ring? (except the long down stay in obedience of course which is done right next to other dogs) Have you been to a match? Just because another dog isn't up the performing dog's butt doesn't mean that dog is working with no distractions. The last show I went to they were simultaneously running agility in one ring, jumpers in the next ring, rally-o across the way and next to that obedience. Dogs and people everywhere.

How, then, would you evaluate for Companion Dog or Utility or Rally? So that it meant something, to your high exacting standards?

And frankly, for the good of my soul, I'd rather be the slave than the slave-owner.

 

[malmo]

Pat Miller's book "The Power of Positive Dog Training" is extremely popular and your library may have it (ours does--but I live in a large city with a huge public library system). I've seen it also sold at PetCo and PetSmart. It's very easy to understand, outlines what positive training is all about and why it works, and then takes you through a "course" of several weeks long that goes from basic obedience to fun tricks and more advanced work, step by step, with pictures. I highly recommend it.

I agree with this book recommendation. I read it recently, and found that most of the best advice I've heard and read seems to come straight from its pages. I could have saved myself a lot of time and read it long ago.

 

[silverpawz]

Purdue, you never answered my question. Here's a copy of my previous post just in case you missed it.

If you are enforcing known commands so the dog knows it's not optional, but ALSO rewarding good responses with food....how can you be against that? What harm can the treats possibly do?

They are just a reward.

Purdue, if you spent a week training exactly the way you are now, doing exactly what Richling tells you, but you also reward those extra good responses with a little tidbit every now and then (not even every time) I bet your dog will be even more excited about training with you then he already is. And wouldn't that be a good thing?

You've got nothing to loose. You're still enforcing those commands, there is no chance your dog won't obey, right? So why not make him even happier to do so?

And no, I'm not trying to harrass you. Unlike some folks I don't think you're a hopeless case. I think you love your dogs very much and it's obvious you are trying to do what you think is best. I just think you've been given bad information and simply refuse to believe that right now.

I just hope that you'll have an open mind some day, like you want others to have about the methods you use. It goes both ways.

 

[Zoom]

Does anyone else get a kick out of watching Richling post via Purdue?

 

[Purdue#1]

A treat I believe is something that is freely given. My dogs don't need to work for it in order to get their toy or food. they will get it anyway wether they are good or not. i give sly a piece of my steak or sandwich sometimes. he gets it no strings attached. You want to use treats, that's fine, i just see no point in using them.

 

[Saintgirl]

Purdue, seriously, I'm not flaming you here, I'm offereing you some information on behavior modification if you are interested. I know the titles of some modern university used books that are easy and informative to read. They discuss the use of rewards to increase behaviors and make them more reliable. I am not saying drop your methods, I am only wondering why you have discredited certain methods without understanding the foundations and the evidence behind them? There are many ways to train a dog, many ways that work, but some are kinder than others.

 

[silverpawz]

Ok, you know what? You haven't even answered my question despite being asked twice and despite that fact that I'm trying to be nice to you.

I give up. Go abuse your dog and call it training. I'm done.