Ok our puupy is NOT playing now.. Heeeelp!!

Discussion in 'Puppy Forum' started by Shevelle, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. Shevelle

    Shevelle New Member

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    Hi Everyone,
    Doberluv you have been the best advice "GOD" ever.. But this is getting to much with my puppy..

    I tired everything Doberluv suggested with "Yelping" "Ignoring" "Walking away" and praising when she settles down.. And now my 11 week old GSD/Rottie mix is attacking us..

    This is not a playful bite.. She has been "ripping up" my mother.. My mothers hands are all cut up from our puppy.. Mine are about the same way..

    There is nothing we can do..

    -We have tried small time outs in her cage for no more then 2 minutes.. She bites and howls at the cage..
    -If you tell her “no” she argues back at us, barks and growls and then pounces for us.. Grabs our arms and wraps her paws around us and will try to get our entire arm in her mouth and bites very very hard.. We have all walked away bleeding from her..
    -If we walk away she grabs onto our pants and bites down or our feet.. I don’t want to rip her teeth our walking if she gets them stuck in my pants.. So now we have to fight with her to get her off our pants..

    I honestly have to say there is not a moment she is not biting.. We can not pet her, or catch her.. She is pouncing for our hands, faces, legs, feet.. It doesn’t matter she is constantly biting.. We tell her she’s a good girl when she is not biting.. She is well praised.. We also have about 10 chew toys of every color, a kong, a ball with a bell, and a dolly she likes to sleep with.. But when she is awake she’s fighting, biting, growling and thrashing her head back and forth biting everything.. I take her outside for runs, which at times she will still try to attack us...

    Is there anything we can do for her short for buying a muzzle?? I would get training but she does not have all her shots until the end of January and the “In home” trainer we were recommended is way to much money…

    Any help would be great… Thank you so much…
    P.s. I was talking through emails with someone from this board and she suggested taking the puppies bottom lp and rolling it over to the puppies teeth so she bites herself.. Im sorry call me sucker but I can not hurt her in any way whats so ever...
     
  2. Missysmom

    Missysmom New Member

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    We are by far no experts when it comes to dog training and can only give advice from experience. One of our pups was also getting very handy at biting everytime someone tried to pet him or play with him. He was pulling on clothing, etc. He was biting hard enough to hurt so this is what we did. Each time he would start biting during playtime, etc. we would grab him firmly around his snout to close his mouth and at the same time say "No Biting" and would then hand him something that was appropriate to chew on such as a kong or a chewie of some sort. When he started chewing the appropriate toy we would praise him and tell him what a good boy he is. It took time but it worked. We no longer have a biting issue. He now plays nice and if once in awhile he forgets, we reinforce the no biting rule. Hope this helps.
     
  3. Buddy'sParents

    Buddy'sParents *Finding My Inner Fila*

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    First, I suggest getting rid of the "nothing we can do" attitude.

    It sounds like you're frustrated, it's understandable.

    Take a deep breath and realize- it's just a puppy.

    Anytime a puppy attempts to bites or bites (I'm assuming this is play biting and not aggression issues, this pup seems much too young, although I've been wrong before) you must redirect it.

    A sharp "no" or "wrong" as we use and give the dog a toy that IS acceptable to munch on.

    With every toothmark or scratch... you are letting your pup get away. Don't do that. Take control of the situation.

    Also... if this biting is surrounded by a lot of other unacceptable behaviors... try ignoring the pup. If she is in a burst of biting... stand up, fold your arms up and ignore... whatever you do, don't feed into the biting! :)

    Good luck.
     
  4. shadowfacedanes

    shadowfacedanes *Biter*

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    Have you tried shake cans? Squirt bottle? She needs to know this is not acceptable behavior and it sounds like, though you are trying, she is getting mixed signals.

    Here is an article on shake cans. http://www.westieclubamerica.com/behavior/shakecan.html

    Squirt bottle is pretty self explanatory. He bites - you squirt. He associates the biting with a negative reaction.

    Just curious. At what age did you get your puppy?
     
  5. Shahrazade

    Shahrazade New Member

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    It is time to enlist a professional. Look for a certified animal behaviorist in your area- http://www.animalbehavior.org is a good place to start. These are not trainers. They are specialists in problem solving and must have a PhD to get their certification- they will help YOU work with your dog in your home. The sooner you get an appointment, the better- a dog showing aggressive behavior at that age and of those breeds is in serious danger of getting itself in big trouble- so many people are scared of those breeds anyway, including many law enforcement officials, that any less than perfect behavior on the part of an adult mix like that could result in her getting PTS if she were to ever get out and end up picked up by animal control, or if she were to bite a service person in your home, or... or... so many bad things that could happen. If you get the help you need now, then you have plenty of time to teach this little pup to be a good dog as an adult.

    She is controlling your family- you need to take back that control. Start by she doesn't get anything she wants unless she 'says please' by performing a command on cue- sit, down, shake, or just settle down- anything you can teach her. This means breakfast- pour out the food and do not put it down until she sits on cue for even half a second, then praise and give the bowl. If she wants the door opened, she has to sit first. She does not get anything good unless it comes from you in response to something she did right- she needs to learn that you are the good-stuff dispenser and the way to make the good-stuff dispenser work is to be a polite young lady. If you are a clicker person, you can incorporate that as well.

    When you see her getting ready to go for a bite, toss a toy across her line of vision to distract her, and praise if she goes after it instead of biting. This may sound like a reward, but done properly it is nothing more than introducing a non-compatible behavior; i.e., she cannot bite while she has a toy in her mouth, and a quick horizontal toss of a toy is not going to be interpreted as a reward, just a distraction. If she then associates wanting to bite with chasing a toy, wonderful; she can start looking for a toy to chase when she's feeling peckish.
     
  6. Herschel

    Herschel New Member

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    When you ignore the puppy, do you maintain eye contact? Look away, turn away, make it clear that the dog is receiving no attention whatsoever for biting.

    Types of attention:
    -Yelp
    -Saying no
    -Grabbing the snout
    -Yelling

    Any of those could give your dog the signal that bite = reaction. If your dog is merely playing, any of your reactions are just reinforcing the behavior.

    If you choose to do this the humane way, then as soon as your dog tries to nip at you, fold your arms and walk away. If your dog follows you, just stop, and keep turning so your dog can't see your face.
     
  7. YorkieLover

    YorkieLover New Member

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    I am reading this thread and can't help but laugh. We went through the same thing with our puppy and the best thing I can tell you "this too will pass"... I really don't see a need to consult a trainer, a behaviorist, yada yada. This is a puppy playing and thinks you are a litter mate. Just keep doing what the people on here suggested and eventually it will work. The best thing you can do is get up and walk away. When our puppy started biting on me, I put her down got up and left the room. Even if it was to just go stand in the bathroom for 2 minutes. When I came back out, if she started again, I would just go back in the bathroom again. She eventually figured out that biting me caused me to leave the room (and her).
     
  8. Shevelle

    Shevelle New Member

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    I adopted her from NSAL 3 weeks ago.. She was 8 weeks old..

    This just seems like she is “unsettled”.. She runs around crazy and the the biting begins.. But its all the time.. She doesn’t run around all the time, but she does bite all the time. It seems like every time she bites we do exactly what has been explained in the thread.. We put a toy in her mouth.. Last week I just taught her how to give paw.. Not only one hand but to switch off to the other hand.. So now she will give the right paw, put that paw down and give the left right afterwards. She is very smart, but seems like I am to blame for lacking something.. Which is the replacement in her biting us..

    Like I said in the thread, there is not a time that she will not bite us.. If she stops biting and takes a toy.. 2 minutes later she will stop playing with the toy and come after us again..

    Im no way am I afraid of her.. Ive had extremely dangerous animals in my life time and a Shepard/Rottie is about the sweetest and smartest Ive had.. LOL!!

    I have trained my other dogs in the past and they have gotten to the point that on command with one word they will respond.. It just seems with Bella Im not doing something right..
     
  9. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    You have no idea how this pup started out life....probably was never socialized and taken away from Mom and litter mates too young. The lip over teeth worked for me along with the loud yipping when bitten . Patience works miracles !
     
  10. otch1

    otch1 New Member

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    You've ben given some good advice here. Not to contradict anyone, but it's difficult to properly evaluate a behavior over the internet. I understand "in-house" training is expensive. All of us charge approx. the same price in my area, that are qualified to do this. Often, I'd rather see a client invest that money in training classes, when a puppy is this young. If this has truly turned from mouthing to being attacked and you're correct in your assessment, I reccomend you be very careful about using any part of your body to correct behavior. Especially, causing pain with your hands. Granted, that's a standard correction for most puppies mouthing too hard and seeming to ignore the human "yelp", but it can backfire and aggitate other pups, making the situation worse. Toy distraction, as well as the squirt bottle would be a standard method to address this. Not water... this is not a game and water for this pup will be "fun", I have a feeling. Lol! Buy a bottle of Bitter Apple spray and put into smaller handheld sample size hairspray bottle. Rinse well first. Schedule a play session with toys, preferably when bad behavior is likely to occur. If puppy refuses to acknowlege toy distraction and praise, your withdrawing of hands and walking away and still comes after you, gently reach down and put a tiny sprtiz of Bitter Apple on tip of tongue while quietly giving command "leave it" or "no bite". This is a very small squirt, only on tip of tongue. Walk away. This is unpleasant enough that it should stop biting in it's tracks. Next day, engage in play session. Spray small amoount of Bitter apple on top of your hands, not palms. You don't want to contaminate toys. As pup displays desire to come after you and bite, close hands Bitter Apple side up, and give quiet "leave it" command as pup goes for you. He will smell Bitter Apple, remember taste and should stop moving foward or close mouth immediatley. There is alot of praise for this, food reward, then continue play session. This is a high end correction I've had to use only on occassion, only in extreme cases and it works almost immediately. Very important to make sure you're teaching what behavior should replace the biting, at the same time and you're getting into classes asap. Good luck!
     
  11. Shevelle

    Shevelle New Member

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    Oh my!! I just want to say thank you so much all of you that responded to my thread.. I want to thank you for taking the time out to explain to me that shes a puppy and a few GREAT tips in correcting this situations.. I will post back in a few days to let you know how all is going.. Thank you so much!!! :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:
     
  12. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    How much exercise is she getting? How many different times during the day do you work on a few obedience skills? Why not take her outside and let her rip roar around the yard, take her on a little walk, come back and let her chase a ball some more....really poop her out. Bring her inside and work on a sit, a down, a come. Use a treat and lure her into position if needed. When she's tired, she'll be less apt (I would think) to get quite so wild. This way, when you stop and and she's calmer and you want to pat her gently and calmly, she may get more opportunitites to be reinforced for that nice behavior. Don't pat her or talk to her if she's biting and wild. If she's still a maniacal barracuda, take her outside again and run her around the yard some more.

    So, exercise, alternative "chores" to do. Let's get this pup to see how a little serious work and cutting out some of the silliness gets her a big payoff.

    When she's acting like a maniac, think to yourself. She needs something else to do. What can I ask her to do instead? If another chew toy isn't good enough, how about some training? A nice informal walk where she walks fairly close to you, getting a high value treat for nice walking. Do I need to let her get her zoomies out first? (because it's hard for a pup to think when they're all pent up with that high intensity energy)

    Maybe that will help.
     
  13. Spiritus

    Spiritus New Member

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    Here's one other thing to add. Keep her ON LEASH in the house. That way you always have something other than her to grab onto when she starts her "playing". And really, that is all this is - play, and she hasn't learned yet that it is unacceptable. You've received some excellent advice here, but I always like to stress how and versatile a tool the leash really is.
     
  14. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Good idea Spiritus. That way you have a little control and you don't have to grab toward her neck, something that can cause problems later on. I agree...this is play, albeit rough play. They are little barracudas, aren't they. It just takes some time, good training and maturity.....and exercise! LOL.
     
  15. Baileybear

    Baileybear New Member

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    Hi Shevelle,

    It sounds like my husband & I are going through a similar situation with our 10 week old yellow lab pup. He's our first pet & we had no idea what we were getting ourselves into...we did plenty of research on food, toys, treats, training classes, etc. and we made sure that when we brought our puppy home he would have everything he needed to feel welcome, safe & happy in our house. However, we didn't do much research on our breeder or bite inhibition & thought that taking Bailey home at 6 weeks, 2 days would be perfectly fine! Boy, were we wrong! I think Bailey sees us as his littermates (of course, he responds a bit better to my husband) and he is constantly giving up his toys to come after us instead. I go to bed in tears every single night feeling as though we're losing the battle, but it will get better, right?

    I think one of our problems with Bailey is that he isn't getting enough exercise. Because we brought him home so little, I've been very hesitant to take him on walks for fear he might pick up an illness before he's had his complete shots series. We are starting him with a trainer next week, and one thing she recommened was an extending leash (kind of looks like a big tape measure) if you don't have a fenced-in yard...that way the little pup can rip around the yard but you've still got them on your arm. I think we're going to try that...and then install a fence the second Spring rolls around!

    Other things that Bailey loves to chew on (besides us) are a booda rope soaked in chicken broth & then frozen, Nylabone rack of ribs (must be supervised), and Kong stuffed with a little bit of peanut butter & then frozen. This gives him something to work at & get preoccupied with. Also, mental stimulation really helps! A Buster food cube with little treats or pieces of kibble inside...Bailey goes crazy while trying to figure out how to get the food out! We are just trying anything to redirect his attention, and hopefully as he gets a little older & his training classes start, his attention span will be a bit greater and we can work on understanding our alien relationship a bit better.

    Hope this helps! Best of luck to you:)
     
  16. Love That Collie

    Love That Collie Owned by 2 Rough Collies

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    Shevelle, from your above post where you mention that you have trained all your other dogs in your life but Bella isn't doing what they did when they did it etc... and I believe that you obviously feel that you have failed. This isn't true, please don't let it get you down. Because, as I told you in your very first thread about this subject, I know where you are coming from.

    I too had always trained ALL of my dogs from the time I was a kid and I have had many dogs throughout my life, including three Chows. And they presented no problem for me. However, when I got Bailey, I was so taken aback by his "herding" and his biting and when he didn't respond as quickly or how I wanted him to respond I became inwardly frustrated that this young puppy was getting the better of ME, that I had actually sat in the middle of the kitchen floor and cried! :yikes: (while he was out of the room of course) I just could not believe that I could NOT get through to him NOT to bite me, bruise me and rip up the backs of my legs!! WHAT in the world was I doing wrong??? Or what in the H@!! was wrong with him?

    I even hired one of those expensive trainers that come to your home which made me feel even more defeated to think that I couldn't train MY own dog as I had so, so many over 30 years!! BTW, in my case my money was wasted on the "30 year experienced dog trainer" the worst money I EVER spent!!

    So, you know what happened? I thought about it long and hard and even considered sending him back to the breeder who was more than willing to do whatever I decided. When I thought long and hard, I decided that it was me who was trying to make Bailey into all those other pups/dogs in my life that I had trained so beautifully and had done exactly as I had said, that he was merely a CHALLENGE, the biggest challenge that a small puppy of mine had presented to me and more time was needed for ME to overcome MY challenge. When I stopped treating him like he was like all the other puppies I had had (because he was not) and not letting him get ANYTHING for free and sticking to my "guns" then things began to fall into place not to mention he started maturing. :D Bailey HAD a lot of stubborness and will, and he was/is so smart and I knew it, but my stubborness, will and smarts I decided had to be bigger than his. And it worked. And with time I realized that I wasn't a failure it was just that I hadn't been prepared for the challenge right off the bat!:D So, don't give up on Bella she will probably grow up to be the "softest mouthed" dog you ever owned! I know Bailey now is. ;)
     
  17. Herschel

    Herschel New Member

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    I don't think you need a trainer. We used to call Herschel "the shark" because he would just open up his mouth and come after us. His teeth were (and still are) razor sharp so he could easily break skin. He didn't mean any harm, but he was something to be feared. On more than one occasion, he ran up and bit my girlfriend on the back of the ankles for no reason.

    These are puppies! Baileybear and Shevelle, there is still hope. You will probably have days where you feel terrible, want to give up, and end up sitting in your kitchen crying.

    You aren't doing anything wrong. It is just a phase. Be consistent with ignoring the behavior and you will be rewarded! Prevent your friends from "wrestling" your dogs or from any behavior the encourages nipping.
     
  18. Herschel

    Herschel New Member

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    I'm not a trainer, so don't take any advice that I give you as professional, please. :)

    Retractable leashes encourage pulling and you might have problems later on with on-leash walking if you start with retractable now. Why not put him on a regular leash and walk him around the same area that you would use for the extendable leash? That way, he will learn leash manners, get exercise, and be forced to listen to you!
     
  19. Love That Collie

    Love That Collie Owned by 2 Rough Collies

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    Herschel..........:D :D :D (those on Chazhound are the only ones who
    know I sat in the kitchen floor and cried) hehehehe
    Hey and thanks for the reply on the bone thread!;)
     
  20. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Great post!

    Another thing I think is helpful is to figure out what instinct, what drive or predatory motor pattern it is he is so driven to do so much of the time...and find a constructive outlet for that. I think it's important to recognize that this is not a dog being naughty or stubborn, but a dog doing exactly what he is hard wired to do in order to survive, hunt and reproduce to make the specie thrive.

    To try to completely eliminate it or stop the behavior altogether is hopeless. You're fighting a losing battle and trying to supress it only makes the dog more explosive and frustrated inside. He needs a way to express these drives, but in a constructive way. So, if you can figure out what this behavior resembles as far as in nature... and replicate it with some other activity, other than your legs and arms being torn to shreds, do that.

    All dog have some, but not usually all of the predatory motor patterns. Wovles have all of them. They are: eye stalk, chase, bite, kill, consume. Which patterns are leading up to this behavior and where are they cutting off? (In your puppies case, this is all practice for when he's an adult and at this time, in the form of play.) Does he have the eye stalk like a Border Collie? Something (breeding) in a Border Collie stops him after the eye stalk, chase and bite, sometimes before the bite. He does not kill or consume. (normally) Or is your puppy skipping that eye stalk and going to the chase, bite and stopping before the kill and consume? Zero in on what he's doing, probably the chase and bite. So, give him something else to chase and bite instead of your legs. Outside, take a wiggly toy on a rope and run with it. Let him chase and bite it. Show him the distinction between that and your legs. Leg biting ends all play immediately. He is controlled with a leash and/or isolated for a few minutes. Chasing, capturing and biting the toy is rewarding and reinforcing. Be consistant and practice several times a day for short periods. Give him treats too, although getting to catch the "prey"....the toy, is the life reward...the natural reward in this case. But some yummy treats would be a bonus.

    He'll mature too and along with effective obedience training, good exercise and constructive outlets for his predatory drives, he'll grow up to be a responsible dog who knows ho to get along with humans and your boundaries.
     

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