Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by ~Tucker&Me~, May 10, 2012.
As eloquent and thought provoking as ever.
I don't understand why the Bible should define marriage.
I think the Bible needs to be kept out of the government entirely. Being married comes with so many (necessary) benefits. Filing joint tax returns, being allowed in the ICU with your spouse, health insurance, etc, etc. It's MORE than just a religious committment.
ETA: I am not a fan of Obama, and will not be voting for him. Just wanted to drop that in here.
I feel the same.
It is an election year...he needs votes, and this is one way to get them.
What are the reasons then? I've not ever heard a good reason for keeping two people (who are harming no one) apart. I'm not being snarky here - I'm genuinely interested in hearing reasons to back up this rule.
I find it very odd that so many have such a big problem with 2 people who love each other living together and having the same laws of protections and benefits that are afforded to other citizens of the same country. why do things that have no bearing on someone's personal life seem to have such a great impact all the time?
Where was I without eloquence? Was it because I said there was no god? That is not a lack of eloquence. That is you getting upset with my opinion.
Probably, and possibly. It also so happens that many of those values are either common sense or involve treating people the way I agree they should be treated - which is different than "because the bible said so".
I'm pretty sure that it is possible to use the bible as a guideline for one's personal behavior without legislating others' behavior. I don't think any of the passages in question mandate passing laws to prevent OTHER people from lying with other men or whatnot. Or eating shellfish. Or mixing fabrics. (Speaking of rules being ok if you agree with them.)
I just had a thought. The priest who married Paul and I is married. To a man! Gasp! For shame. That makes our union invalid. Bwahahaha
^Both of these.
It's just affording all consenting adults the right to commit themselves to a legal marriage and the accompanying obligations, benefits, and protections.
It's not forcing churches to recognize those marriages any more than churches have to recognize any other marriage performed outside their church.
I just don't get why it's such a problem.
He said this one october 1st
"It happens when a father realizes he doesnâ€™t just love his daughter, but also her wife. It happens when a soldier tells his unit that heâ€™s gay, and they tell him they knew it all along and they didnâ€™t care, because he was the toughest guy in the unit. It happens when a video sparks a movement to let every single young person know theyâ€™re not alone, and things will get better. It happens when people look past their ultimately minor differences to see themselves in the hopes and struggles of their fellow human beings. Thatâ€™s where change is happening."
President Barack Obama
Oh but I'm totally voting for him just because he is cool
Not because I'm a student, a woman and somebody who believes in equal rights.
It's only because he fist bumps michelle
Yeah I can't help but feel it's nothing more than it being an election year. He had 4 years to speak out but he waits until JUST before an election. convenient. I just can't help but think political ploy rather than personal stance.
As for what the bible says.... I'm not saying the government should pass laws based on what the bible says but when you put out a vote to the people of the country you can't expect them to not consider the source of their values. IMO, our sins are between God and the individual and it's not up to us to pass laws for or against them but when many people draw their morals and values from God you can't expect them to just forget about that when they vote. People get their values from different sources I suppose but you can't ask everyone to just forget about your beliefs and values when you vote... otherwise what the heck is the point of voting? wow that was repetetive lol
As for previous quotes from the bible, it is important that you consider old testament vs new testament. When Jesus died on the cross it created a new covenant between man and God. A lot of things changed when that happened. Jesus was the sacrificial lamb if you will... his blood was shed for our sins. that's not to say we should just go around doing whatever we want because it's paid for by his blood. The old covenant was broken and a new covenant was created.
I get to upset when discussing this issue which is why I am letting graphics explain my emotions lol
If you really want to know the answer to that question, there are plenty of courses in biblical studies out there, both in religious and non-religious institutions. I suspect you don't actually want to know the answer, but if you are honestly asking, what you're looking for is what the coming of Jesus had to do with Mosaic law and the covenants of the OT... or maybe the purpose of Mosaic law as it relates to the coming of Jesus would be a better way to put it?
Biblical studies are no small task though, since the Bible is not really a small book. You could honestly spend weeks just on this one subject. There's plenty of argument out there, too, about what exactly it means, which is good because the argument tends to lead to a better understanding. The quality studies will address the original Greek of the NT and look at what exactly those words meant. The translation issue is a huge one as it relates to what is written in the Bible.
As to his comments, I do think it's rather convenient timing. It makes me feel jaded, but as somebody living in Illinois, I have a very good - and unfortunate - grasp on Obama and what he says and why. I was excited to vote for him once. Here's a hint: it wasn't when was running for president.
I AM however surprised that he would then say he thinks it's a states issue. I honestly didn't expect Obama to ever say "it's for the states to decide."
I would just like to say that this is exactly why I love your posts.
If I could vote I would vote for him purely for that last picture. I think spousal fist bumps should be mandatory. Regardless of the gender of the spouses.
Yes, its election time but honestly, I dont see this getting him more votes. If anything it will probably lose him votes. NOt like his opposition if for gay marriage and he is trying to take some of his votes. He was already the most viable candidate to get equality. It may firm up some of his base, but not really add to it. I do think he probably always thought this but held back to get elected, annoying, but for some reason people in this country are ridiculous when it comes to same sex marriage.
I dont care what your religious views are, you dont get to oppress and deny a minority because of them. Dont like same sex marriage? Dont have one, go to churches that dont perform them, heck, you can "not recognize" them all you want! Same sex couples getting married is IN NO WAY whatsoever going to affect anyone but the couple getting married.
Also known as "the old laws don't suit me anymore, oh well. Let's make new ones! Hooray!!"
Thanks for proving my point with this childish blabber. LOL "Bwhahahaha" Really?
Wow. You REALLY do not understand what the Bible even says. Have you ever read it? I mean really?
You really don't have any idea what that means and thats OK but don't pretend to know what you are talking about. I didn't create the new testament.
I am not goin to ridicule you for your beliefs but if you feel the need to tidicule mine that is your perogative
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