Obama/Biden versus Romney/Ryan?

Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by Barbara!, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    See... It is all equally sinful until you repent. God forgives all sin if you ask for it and try your best not to willfully continue to sin.

    I had sex before marriage. Lots of it. Am I proud of it? No. I also wasn't a believer then. That lifestyle got me in trouble and also lead to the most enlightening and trying experience of my life. Three years with an incredibly manipulative and emotionally abusive man (not married). I realized eventually that my choices in life landed me in that situation. I didn't treat muself with respect so why would I care if anyone else did. God saved me from that. He gave me the strength to get out and the clarity to realize how damaging my mindset was.

    I am a sinner but now I know I have a saviour. I TRY not to sin but I am human so it happens. The key is realizing it and asking God for his forgiveness. Admitting that I am a sinner and trying not to repeat my mistakes. Sometimes it is like wandering through thr desert... I have to wander around a few times before I figure it out but i keep trying to do better and to figure it out.

    There is no sin in this world that cannot be forgiven... It is willfully continuing to carry on that sin without care or repentance.
     
  2. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    Exasperbation (n): the irrational desire to reason with the delusional.

    That's all I got. Oh, and kudos to Danefied and Fran.

    Also, Separation of Church and State.
     
  3. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Ok so those who are homosexuals, who have done something "wrong" as far as the bible goes, as you have, and ask for forgiveness and do feel they are forgiven.
    Why are you still against them?
    I mean, after all.. they have made "mistakes" as far the bible goes,as you have, and are just living their lives the best they can.

    I used the term free pass because you DO seem to have a double standard based on this issue. You are forgiven, jesus forgave you because he promised..
    but what about gay people? They shouldn't have a right to marry in a way the bible doesn't see fit (as YOU did)?

    You fall down from time to time and don't conform to the perfect "bible ideal" yet condemn others that also don't fit the "perfect mold". Gay people shouldn't marry because it's in the bible that it's wrong. But under those same rules, you wouldn't be married at Tanya. If all "rights were wronged" you wouldn't be allowed to have married her and you wouldn't have gotten divorced and every day you wake up and are married to her..it's sinning. You don't apologize for it, in fact, you are thankful for it and admit that you are obviously happy being married to her and don't regret it and you know god loves you etc..

    so isn't it possible for god to love gay married couples as well?
    even if they aren't perfect, even if they sin.. as you aren't and do.
     
  4. "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

    So going by your last post, Sparks, should anyone who married a divorced woman in the past now leave her so as not to continue sinning? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely trying to understand.
     
  5. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    I don't know why you can't just have a normal exchange of ideas without the unnessecary sarcasm. Not just in this thread but many threads.
     
  6. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Ok, so homosexuality is a sin as is being re-married.
    Those who (like puck) are re-married, sin..every day. by being remarried and staying in that new marriage (it's all adultery from the start) as do homosexuals that go on every day being gay (adultery)

    Isn't it possible that you guys are in the same boat as far as being imperfect but god loves you anyway because you are good people?

    and isn't part of free will the right to make those choices? To marry? To unmarry? To forgive? To repent etc..

    Puck KNOWS being re-married is a sin but it's not like he regrets it. He knows he's a good guy and loves who he loves unconditionally.
    can't the same be said for gay people? They love who they love and only god himself should be able to judge them.

    It seems to me the relationship with god is pretty personal. People who have relationships with jesus/religion are VERY personal when it comes to how they see things, how they seem themselves, how god has forgiven them... but how about extending that to how god sees others?

    I'm an atheist.. through and through. but, if I wasn't..I gotta say, from all i've heard about this god guy. It seems to me he would love good people regardless of who they loved and married down here..
     
  7. Puckstop31

    Puckstop31 Super-Genius

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    I suppose. Except that, as I see it, 2 gay pepople could not be married as the Bible defines it.

    That said, why should people of faith support enabling sin? That akin to bringing triple chocolate cake to a weight watchers meeting.
     
  8. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    Honestly? Because I can't take people like you or your husband seriously. So I prefer to make light of the situation with sarcasm. I hardly find it unnecessary.

    I'm more than willing to "exchange ideas" with those who aren't trying to force others into their religion and beliefs by putting it into law. I enjoy theological debates most of all.

    But I do not enjoy hearing you and your husband tell people they should "know better" and try to play the victim card with your religion and justify your beliefs in alienating the population via federal or state law.
     
  9. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    I'm not asking for it to be enabled. Merely for some..empathy? Perhaps instead of loudly condemning or trying to take away the rights of people.. to love them anyway. I mean..what would jesus do and all. I don't think jesus would be out trying to force his commandments into laws and stop people from marrying.

    How would you like it if people of faith stood up and decided not to ENABLE your remarriage? To picket and protest and say mean things just because you love the person you love. Even if you knew god didn't hate you.. people would judge you and hurt you and say what you have is wrong (even though you know you love this person) and not let you attend church and say god hates you and that your marriage isn't real..just because the bible says what it does. Even if you are good and honest and love your wife now.. people would say you don't have the right to marry her because THEY think it's wrong.
    2 re-married people can't be married as far the bible defines it either. Adultery and all..

    I'm not going to sit here and argue. I'm an atheist so really, who am I to say what god would or wouldn't do.. but I personally think he would be a lot nicer than a lot of his people are as far as people who are different.
     
  10. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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  11. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    For me I have a couple gay friends and my favorite teacher from school was gay.

    My issue is that for my teacher he doesn't even want to be 'married' he just wants to be legally family so when something goes wrong he can be there for his partner that he loves and cares about just as much as any straight person.

    How would anyone here who has been divorced feel if they were dying or their spouse was dying and they were told they couldn't see them or help make any decisions because they weren't a real couple? You may be ok with it but the super conservative people who ARE following what the bible says, says you are a sinner and your 'marriage' is null and void because you screwed up on your first one?

    I am a Christian but I had VERY nontraditional Christian influences growing up. And I think the one thing my youth leader told me has been my 'words to live by' pretty much all my life.

    'The Bible was written by man and influenced by God. But in the end it was written by man. Even the holiest of the holy man is not God and has his own personal opinions/feelings and views that they put into their writing. That's why we don't worship the Bible. That's why we don't worship the men who put pen to paper to write the Bible. There are many laws and rules that contradict themselves. If you ever feel like the Bible's rules are making you a bad person who is unsympathetic to others and their trials remember what you hold in your hands is an interpretation. Follow the message not the words.'

    And while I STRONGLY disagree with puck and sparks interpretation of what the Bible sayss I also STRONGLY disagree with anyone who would put any one else's beliefs down and call them stories, fables or a phase. People's beliefs are incredibly important at a personal level and to put them down just makes you just as bad a person as you perceive them.
     
  12. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    This. This. This, and this.

    I like how it was skipped over...
     
  13. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    Neither of us is trying to put anything into law. I am not even allowed to vote in this country lol. Nor are we picketing or telling anyone that God hates them. I don't believe God hates anyone. God hates sin not the sinner. Of course God is better at loving than we are. As an imperfect human being I try to love everyone (not agreeing with something is not equal to hate) but it isn't always easy and I certainly fail A LOT lol. We are all prone to judgemental mindsets.

    Loving someone also doesn't mean telling them "its ok" no matter what they do. I certainly don't expect anyone to accept my sin. In The end it absolutely is between that person and God. Personally we have had extensive talks with our pastor about our past and trying to repent for that

    There is more I want to add but I can't keep up on this phone while trying to catch up on The walking Dead (lol... I know... Talk about a 180)

    Eta: i do believe they should have legal family rights (ie:access in the hospital, etc) but I have also said i believe the government shouldn't be in the marriage business. Get your marriage at the place of your choosing and then file the CONTRACT with the
    Government if you choose then the government gets no say on who, how, when, how many, etc
     
  14. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    How is letting gays marry 'enabling' them? They're going to be gay either way and are probably going to engage in homosexual acts. Being married or not isn't going to have much of a bearing on that aspect.

    The religious definition of marriage has no meaning when we're talking what the LEGAL definition should be.
     
  15. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    For some reason people get SO tangled up in this. I can't for the life of me figure out why. Kinda makes me wish we had two different words for legally married vs. married in ____ church.

    Even my husband was all up in arms over the recognition of same sex marriage until he realized that no one is try to force any religion to recognize same sex marriages. They can continue proclaim those in a same sex marriage are not married in the eyes of their higher power. It's the legal institution of marriage and the rights and responsibilities that go with that legal status which should be available to consenting adults regardless of gender.
     
  16. RBark

    RBark Got Floof?

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    I dunno, if some of the stories I've heard about marriage are true, letting gay people marry would lead to less gay sex.

    STOP GAY SEX. VOTE FOR GAY MARRIAGE
     
  17. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    This is a good post and I respect your opinions and many of the
    Others in this thread.

    I don't want anyone to think I have no empathy or no heart or that I HATE anyone just because I don't agree with something. I realize that there are a few who have a strong dislike (maybe even hatred) for us and our opinions but best I can do is try to love them anyway but... I fail a lot lol
     
  18. I may or may not have snorted upon reading this.
     
  19. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Just came across this.....fits into this thread

    http://thinkprogress.org/election/2...god-awful-why-didnt-jesus-or-paul-condemn-it/
     
  20. MandyPug

    MandyPug Sport Model Pug

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