Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by Barbara!, Aug 11, 2012.
:rofl1: now THAT is a good answer lol
Okay, in a serious response about human rights, they come from an educated, rational and compassionate mind. Human rights come from humans.
A religion that has no commandment against rape or slavery is not one from which we should be building our moral compass. That’s all I’m going to say about that.
Many of our founding fathers were atheists, anti-theists, whatever you want to label them, and drafted the constitution - one of the most protective of human rights there is, from that framework.
Would it be creepy to say I <3 you? Ok- I don't know if I really love you, but I love your post. This is exactly how I feel.
Romney's fiscal plan is as bass-ackwards as Obama's... so either way we're screwed. At least Obama isn't as much of an evil dictator who's plan is to reinstate Don't Ask, Don't Tell, harshly restrict planned parenthood, and destroy all hope for a more socially-accepting America.
I support your rights to have your religion. What I don't support- and will actively FIGHT against for as long as it takes- is legislation that is based on a religion that I don't even believe in. Don't like abortion? Fine- don't get one. Don't let your daughter get one. I don't care what you do- just don't tell me what I can do. Don't like gay marriage? Fine- marry a straight person. Don't attend gay weddings, don't watch shows with gay characters, don't go to gay bars, just don't you DARE tell anyone that they can't.
I don't like religion. Flat out- I think it is stupid, a huge waste of time and money, it hurts free-thinking and I just plain don't agree with it. I have every right to think that- but if I were saying "Ok- well because I don't like it, it is REQUIRED by law that no one is allowed to attend church." sound good? That is what you're doing to homosexuals. Is that fair?
Christianity is about faith, right? So what if I lack that faith? Does that mean I still have to follow the tenants of some all powerful Oz? I mean- God didn't write the Bible, so how do I even know if that is what "He" wants? Does God really condone racial discrimination, rape, murder, slavery, incest, homophobia and misogyny? If so, why the HELL would I listen to that guy?
Yeah... go back and read your bibles. All of what I just said is all in there, and I'm sorry that I don't think its "fair" to just say... "Ok, well we understand that the rape stuff is pretty bad... and I guess slavery isn't very smart... but lets leave in the part about homosexuals, because gay people are icky!"
Seriously guys... grow the hell up.
I have some points to make on biblical side of things but I am typing from my phone so I will make them tomorrow from the computer...
But... That being said...
Human rights come from humans who also had no issue keeping slaves and still let rapists get away with it but we put more stock in humans determining rights?
If humans made the rights than humans can take them away. No matter WHAT their reasoning (religious or otherwise)... As humans we have the right to take away rights because we gave them?
More love for Danified and Owned.
I understand that many posts about the bible, God and Christianity is really meant to put Christians on the defensive. I will not be on the defensive about my faith. I see a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to the bible, what it says, the old testament vs the new testament... Etc etc. that's ok.
You vote through your moral compass where ever that comes from, my moral compass comes from my faith... How can one demand I ignore my moral compass just because they don't believe in where mine comes from?
You could make a law saying Christians can't go to church but that wouldn't stop Christians from believing anymore than laws can stop gays from
Loving. Look at areas in Asia. LOTS of religious persecution there but there are a lot of very powerful believers still believing happily despite not being allowed to practice openly
And despite what anyone thinks... I love all of you even if you vehemently disagree with me
Well, we have to make sure it's legitimate rape first...
All i have to contribute now.
That's just it, I try very hard not to vote with my own personal moral compass. I try very hard to vote in a way that allows people to continue on letting their moral compass guide them without letting that personal compass intrude onto others.
When you let your moral compass (be it god(s), the bible, your lack of a god or bible or whatever) dictate what other people can do with their own lives and bodies, as long as it does not infringe on others, is when I start having major issues with your moral compass.
Though, I guess you could very well argue that my moral compass is the belief that other people should be given equality and the right to live as they see fit as long as others are not being harmed or infringed on.
But see... "as long as others aren't being hurt or infringed upon" can be pretty subjective. Now with that statement I am not talking about Gay rights but a multitude of other issues being voted upon in this election. There are a great many things to be dtermined with this election with EITHER party that is going to infringe on someone in some way or hurt someone in some way. Who and how and whether it is ok is subjective.
Funny thing is... The New Testament doesn't condemn loving relationships between same sex couples. Who would have thunk it?
I am strong in my faith, but I would never vote church principles into law. Faith and your beliefs are a choice, not something that can or should be forced on others. I am so beyond frustrated when Christians (or those of any other faith, but it seems to be us Christians lately...) try to legislate their version of morality. Lead by example, not by force.
Ah, don't go there. You will soon receive PMs explaining why Paul's letters condemn homosexuality, and how if you can't see that you are intentionally avoiding the truth.
I agree with you, but it's only going to open a huge can of worms here that isn't really relevant to this discussion.
This explains my views pretty well (and I find it entertaining so I am sharing lol)
That really baffles me -- that the state bars you from voting for anyone but the two major parties. What's even more baffling is that none of the voting rights organizations has raised hell over it.
That is amazing.
Yes I do because as a rational, thinking person I am willing to look at alternate views and reconsider my convictions based on the facts and evidence presented. Much as we no longer think women are lesser citizens and should not be allowed to vote, just as we no longer think racial segregation is a good idea, much as we no longer think that forcing a 13 year old girl to marry a man in his 50â€™s is a good idea, much as we no longer think that sacrificing a goat at an altar will convince some deity to keep natural disasters at bay.
If the bible is the word of God, then God gives directives for keeping slaves and when to offer up your virgin daughters to be raped, so it seems to me that God doesnâ€™t have much of an issue with either. Not to mention it didnâ€™t even come up in the commandments. Donâ€™t say his name with a bad attitude came up, donâ€™t have any other gods came up, donâ€™t wish you had your neighborâ€™s donkey came up, but donâ€™t enslave people of other races or beliefs wasnâ€™t covered, donâ€™t rape young women of different races or beliefs wasnâ€™t covered. Seem to me that if he had room on those tablets to mention how we should say his name, he might have slipped in something about not raping or enslaving.
Now we could also argue that the bible is not the word of God but manâ€™s interpretation of the word of who man interprets to be God but that would kind of complicate things if youâ€™re trying to use the bible as a superior moral code.
Gosh I hope we have the right to take away rights! If you drive drunk you lose your right to drive a vehicle. If you show up at school and shoot the place up you lose your right to bear arms. If you prey on little children you lose your right to your pursuit of happiness and you lose your liberties.
Just so you know, I have read the bible extensively, I have studied the bible, as well as other religious texts. Iâ€™m not trying to be disrespectful to your religion nor trying to make you defensive.
I donâ€™t have an argument with you, I donâ€™t have an argument with your beliefs... I have an argument with those beliefs being imposed upon me and my children through the guise of government.
Our founding fathers were *very* clear on separation of church and state and I donâ€™t think some of our current legislators understand that part at all. The church has NO place in the running of our country. Personally I donâ€™t even like the fact that churches donâ€™t pay taxes. I think that is ridiculous.
â€œQuestion with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.â€ ~Thomas Jefferson
â€œThe legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.â€ ~ also Jefferson.
George Mason was the author of the Virginia declaration of rights and he and Jefferson corresponded extensively.
"That as Religion, or the Duty which we owe to our divine and omnipotent Creator, and the Manner of discharging it, can be governed only by Reason and Conviction, not by Force or Violence; and therefore that all Men shou'd enjoy the fullest Toleration in the Exercise of Religion, according to the Dictates of Conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the Magistrate, unless, under Colour of Religion, any Man disturb the Peace, the Happiness, or Safety of Society, or of Individuals. And that it is the mutual Duty of all, to practice Christian forbearance, Love and Charity towards Each other.â€ ~George Mason in one draft of the Virginia declaration of rights. (Emphasis mine.)
IOW practice whatever religion you wish, just donâ€™t impose your religion on me.
Yeah. Oklahoma's kind of ass backwards though. They have tried petitions to get a write in put on the ballot.
I believe there are only two states that don't allow a write in or a third party put on the ballot. I'm half tempted to write in anyways or just not vote. Oklahoma will go red anyways.
I should have known...
For those of you who have known me a long time, I am a much different person today than I was a year ago. Many of my points of view are the same, but I endeavor to discuss them in a much different way. So let me clear up a few things here, because this discussion assumes some things about me that are quite untrue.
First and foremost, I believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. That God wrote it by inspiring the human authors. Frankly, that idea is core to the Christian faith. If we compromise on what it says, what is the point? Its either all 100% true, or none of it is. Its easy for the humanist to pick the Bible apart if you do not take it in context. Also, being a 'trained' historian I understand that if one studies something with a specific intent, well, you will come to the predetermined conclusions. You need to study the Bible looking for answers, not confirmation of what you already believe.
Next, I do not vote to impose my will/faith on others. I vote my conscience, just like you. I am NOT for forcing ANYone to live or believe the way I do. For instance, I want government out of the marriage business and in the civil union business. Leave marriage to the churches as they see fit. Also, I do not believe the absurd notion that women are less than men. What we are is different, with different roles. If you people think I dominate or RULE my wife.... LOL You clearly do not know her. As for the abortion issue... I do not believe in a law that makes abortion illegal. But I do believe in the sanctity of human life and am disgusted by how the secular humanist frames the abortion debate.
Like I said before, I will not let the secular humanist define what a Christian is/should be.
And look at that... Here we are talking about social issues in a political thread when social issues won't matter a hill of beans if we are all broke and utterly dependant on .gov. Nice trick.