Non-discipline for rescue dogs?
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Replace Daisy with the name Beau and age 10 and pretty much the same here, cranky old hound dogs get whatever they want whenever they want.
Takoda is held to higher standards due her not issues, but quirks. But she's a cur, so her being guardy and protective is in the breed standard.
And Bear the Rottie, well he's a 120lb dog that could kill someone if he really wanted to, so his butt better behave!!
Takoda is held to higher standards due her not issues, but quirks. But she's a cur, so her being guardy and protective is in the breed standard.
And Bear the Rottie, well he's a 120lb dog that could kill someone if he really wanted to, so his butt better behave!!
Okay...I'll get serious. I agree that if people think that the only way to "discipline" a dog is to be harsh, then I can see why rescue dogs that may have had a rotten life are not worked with. If only people realized it does dogs good to teach (discipline...discipline means teach) dogs by using PR methods, humane and fun ways to teach them, maybe they wouldn't be left to flail about insecurely. And that goes for any dogs, rescue or not. I see a lot of extremes both ways...either they're too rigid and harsh, which results in no communication to the dog....or they don't do anything.
Well it's like with my parents. I told them, begged them, do not hit Tucker, please! And for the most part they have followed my wishes. But this also means they are completely incapable of teaching him any manners or working on him with any problem behaviors. In their mind hitting is the only way you can get rid of bad behaviors. What they see me doing to train him they consider complicated and too hard for them to do (not that they've ever listened to me try to explain what I'm doing).
I certainly agree all dogs, regardless of their background, need to be taught to live safely and harmoniously in our society, I just think I get why it's not always being done.
I also agree though, that you don't always know what people have been doing with their dog. If you walked by me and Tucker and he flipped out when he saw your dog you might think I'm "letting" him, that I have not been working with him on it. You'd be wrong. I am also known to say that some of his issues are genetic. I am not saying this to excuse the behavior, but so that people have an understanding of why he behaves the way he does. People who say their dogs problems are caused by their background may not be lying, and they may actually be working with those dogs to help make them better, but just want you to know WHY the dog is not "normal", especially in a world where certain behaviors (like my dog's aggression) are seen as the result of abuse (even though they are often not) or failed puppy raising, people want to make it clear it wasn't them who caused it, because no one wants to be seen as an animal abuser or cruddy dog owner.
But people who simply think training is cruel, even positive methods, are silly. It strikes me as a PETA mentality, they think "making" their dog work is wrong, requiring them to follow certain rules is wrong, slavery. Which wouldn't be a problem if their dog only ever saw or interacted with them, but that's not generally the case.
I certainly agree all dogs, regardless of their background, need to be taught to live safely and harmoniously in our society, I just think I get why it's not always being done.
I also agree though, that you don't always know what people have been doing with their dog. If you walked by me and Tucker and he flipped out when he saw your dog you might think I'm "letting" him, that I have not been working with him on it. You'd be wrong. I am also known to say that some of his issues are genetic. I am not saying this to excuse the behavior, but so that people have an understanding of why he behaves the way he does. People who say their dogs problems are caused by their background may not be lying, and they may actually be working with those dogs to help make them better, but just want you to know WHY the dog is not "normal", especially in a world where certain behaviors (like my dog's aggression) are seen as the result of abuse (even though they are often not) or failed puppy raising, people want to make it clear it wasn't them who caused it, because no one wants to be seen as an animal abuser or cruddy dog owner.
But people who simply think training is cruel, even positive methods, are silly. It strikes me as a PETA mentality, they think "making" their dog work is wrong, requiring them to follow certain rules is wrong, slavery. Which wouldn't be a problem if their dog only ever saw or interacted with them, but that's not generally the case.
I think its really easy to get all judgmental about other people’s dogs, but the bottom line is, everyone trains for (or don’t train for) what matters to them.
Mine bark at approaching vehicles and it doesn’t bother me in the least - in fact I prefer it. When you live out in the boonies, a barking dog is not a nuisance, its a necessity. If I lived in an apartment a) I wouldn’t have 4 big dogs, and b) I would take the time to train them not to bark.
Where in our situation off leash reliability is a non negotiable, in other cases it’s not. Where in some homes DA is a no-go, in other homes its an “oh wellâ€.
What constitutes a “well trained†dog is SO subjective, its really not for me or anyone else to say what is and what is not okay with others’ dogs.
Mine bark at approaching vehicles and it doesn’t bother me in the least - in fact I prefer it. When you live out in the boonies, a barking dog is not a nuisance, its a necessity. If I lived in an apartment a) I wouldn’t have 4 big dogs, and b) I would take the time to train them not to bark.
Where in our situation off leash reliability is a non negotiable, in other cases it’s not. Where in some homes DA is a no-go, in other homes its an “oh wellâ€.
What constitutes a “well trained†dog is SO subjective, its really not for me or anyone else to say what is and what is not okay with others’ dogs.
When a dog is becoming a public nuisance it's not a private and subjective matter of trained or not. I think this was initially geared towards dogs being allowed to harass others due to size and or origin.
The fact my dogs jump on my couches is whatever, if they ran out of my house and into my neighbors to jump on their couches I doubt it would be a private matter anymore.
The fact my dogs jump on my couches is whatever, if they ran out of my house and into my neighbors to jump on their couches I doubt it would be a private matter anymore.
Oh I see. I was thinking in terms of going to someone’s house and making judgement calls based on how the dogs behave in their own home.
I guess I tend to see nuisance dogs as a management issue not necessarily a training issue.
The most beautifully trained dog isn’t necessarily going to stay in the yard while you’re gone all day unless you put a fence up, or put the dog inside.
The dog who bites the groomer or tech can wear a muzzle.
The dog who leash lunges can wear better equipment and owners can walk in less crowded areas.
Its not that people don’t train their dogs so much as people don’t think beyond their own nose. I really don’t think it occurs to many people that the way their dog is behaving in public might affect someone else.
I guess I tend to see nuisance dogs as a management issue not necessarily a training issue.
The most beautifully trained dog isn’t necessarily going to stay in the yard while you’re gone all day unless you put a fence up, or put the dog inside.
The dog who bites the groomer or tech can wear a muzzle.
The dog who leash lunges can wear better equipment and owners can walk in less crowded areas.
Its not that people don’t train their dogs so much as people don’t think beyond their own nose. I really don’t think it occurs to many people that the way their dog is behaving in public might affect someone else.
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I have seen this working at a shelter more with Labs than any other breed. People get a lab because they are cute as puppies and bring them in a year later when they are so out of control. It's great working with them on their manners, but it's more difficult to get them in a home where people can handle them.
My girl, Dixie I adopted from the shelter I work at was 9 weeks when I adopted her. She was abandoned on one of the coldest nights of the year in December in a dark alley. I did not adopt her because I took pity on her for being abandoned. Sure, I felt bad but it's not why I adopted her. I adopted her because of her personality and not to mention she is cute.
She has been trained from day 1, she may not be the most well behaved dog like ever as she is still maturing. But she is not out of control!
I think no matter where people get their dog whether it be a shelter, rescue, or breeder they have the responsibility to train their dog. Especially the younger ones! I could see if it was a senior dog, they are already trained usually to let them not have a lot of discipline.
My girl, Dixie I adopted from the shelter I work at was 9 weeks when I adopted her. She was abandoned on one of the coldest nights of the year in December in a dark alley. I did not adopt her because I took pity on her for being abandoned. Sure, I felt bad but it's not why I adopted her. I adopted her because of her personality and not to mention she is cute.
She has been trained from day 1, she may not be the most well behaved dog like ever as she is still maturing. But she is not out of control!
I think no matter where people get their dog whether it be a shelter, rescue, or breeder they have the responsibility to train their dog. Especially the younger ones! I could see if it was a senior dog, they are already trained usually to let them not have a lot of discipline.
I completely agree with this. If the owner is going to be irresponsible and let the dog misbehave, they're going to do it regardless of the problem behavior, regardless of what kind of dog it is, and regardless of where they got it from. I hear this sort of thing all the time at work.
"Oh, it's alright, he's a rescue dog."
"Oh, it's alright, he's still a puppy."
"Oh, it's alright, he's just excited."
"Oh, it's alright, he's X BREED."
Every dog is different, and your training methods need to be suited to each individual dog, regardless of where you got them from. I train Jack and Missy very differently, yet they're both rescues.
"Oh, it's alright, he's a rescue dog."
"Oh, it's alright, he's still a puppy."
"Oh, it's alright, he's just excited."
"Oh, it's alright, he's X BREED."
Every dog is different, and your training methods need to be suited to each individual dog, regardless of where you got them from. I train Jack and Missy very differently, yet they're both rescues.
I think a lot of people too go for looks over personality...and go for dogs that are completely unsuitable. This may happen more in rescue because you can't actually research a mixed breed, and there aren't the breeders to guide the potential owner.
But, I know a woman right now with an English Setter I would die for...she comes in with the dog, it's gone from a nylon collar to a front snap harness to now a gentle leader. The woman is very petite/gentle, probably in her 60's or 70's...and is SO awkward with her. I know she is trying to do the best she can but the breed just doesn't seem to suit her. I think her hubby got the dog to hunt with but she's trying to care for it otherwise.
But, I know a woman right now with an English Setter I would die for...she comes in with the dog, it's gone from a nylon collar to a front snap harness to now a gentle leader. The woman is very petite/gentle, probably in her 60's or 70's...and is SO awkward with her. I know she is trying to do the best she can but the breed just doesn't seem to suit her. I think her hubby got the dog to hunt with but she's trying to care for it otherwise.
Oh... I'm not saying AT ALL that every dog in the world doesn't need corrections. I do feel that most dogs can be trained to be perfectly well mannered through simple communication, guidance and force free tactics. However, I have no issue with people using fair corrections. Especially with a LGD! I just wanted to point out that "discipline" isn't necessarily required to achieve a well behaved dog. My dogs are exceptionally well mannered rescues, and they've learned to become that with very few corrections.
My city is ridden with the "small/rescue dog" mentality. I hear more and more of it as a plain out excuse for despicable behavior and manners.
There should be a strict screening process and handling courses akin to that for nuclear weaponry for any potential dog owner. Breeder or rescue, small or giant alike. I'm sorry - people are just too f&cking stupid and getting more so by the day. The good people that really get what it is to have a dog are few and far in between.
All actual things I've heard within the past several weeks at pet stores, out on walks, in conversation with passersby with other dogs (and some without), and occasionally picked up from other people's conversations:
"You can't feed a dog chocolate?? Really?!"
"You need to walk it HOW many times a DAY?!"
"I might give him up, he's just so hyper at 5 months and has chewed up so many clothes..."
"Why does he keep peeing in the house? I take him out once every single day!"
"No I don't wanna do obedience training with her, she's only 4 lbs."
"...And he just wants to be the police! he's growling and snarling and with his lil' teeth bared, it's so cute!"
Grrr....this is my serious new pet peeve right now.
There should be a strict screening process and handling courses akin to that for nuclear weaponry for any potential dog owner. Breeder or rescue, small or giant alike. I'm sorry - people are just too f&cking stupid and getting more so by the day. The good people that really get what it is to have a dog are few and far in between.
All actual things I've heard within the past several weeks at pet stores, out on walks, in conversation with passersby with other dogs (and some without), and occasionally picked up from other people's conversations:
"You can't feed a dog chocolate?? Really?!"
"You need to walk it HOW many times a DAY?!"
"I might give him up, he's just so hyper at 5 months and has chewed up so many clothes..."
"Why does he keep peeing in the house? I take him out once every single day!"
"No I don't wanna do obedience training with her, she's only 4 lbs."
"...And he just wants to be the police! he's growling and snarling and with his lil' teeth bared, it's so cute!"
Grrr....this is my serious new pet peeve right now.
I'd be pretty pissed off if someone told me I was required to take a class to own a dog-it's not exactly brain surgery.
I do believe than any rescue OR breeder should take responsibility to make sure that the people they sell or adopt to are reasonably well educated. However, that's just not going to happen in all cases. If I am in discussion with someone about dogs and they mention a training issue, I always make sure to sing the praises of obedience classes. In our area there seem to be more vets offices offering puppy and beginner obedience classes, which I think is great.
I think it's also important to be a little forgiving with people too. Sally kind of fell into our laps. I honestly had to google it to figure out how to teach her "sit" and I thought the proper way to house break was the"rub their nose in it" method. I thought that the only dogs that needed foods higher quality than Purina One were ones with health issues that required "special" food. I thought "positive" and clicker training were hippy crap. Fortunately, I'm also a compulsive researcher and got really into having a dog and wanted to learn more.
I do believe than any rescue OR breeder should take responsibility to make sure that the people they sell or adopt to are reasonably well educated. However, that's just not going to happen in all cases. If I am in discussion with someone about dogs and they mention a training issue, I always make sure to sing the praises of obedience classes. In our area there seem to be more vets offices offering puppy and beginner obedience classes, which I think is great.
I think it's also important to be a little forgiving with people too. Sally kind of fell into our laps. I honestly had to google it to figure out how to teach her "sit" and I thought the proper way to house break was the"rub their nose in it" method. I thought that the only dogs that needed foods higher quality than Purina One were ones with health issues that required "special" food. I thought "positive" and clicker training were hippy crap. Fortunately, I'm also a compulsive researcher and got really into having a dog and wanted to learn more.
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Some people want a low-key pet and a generally nice, easy going family dog. I know not everyone is as dog-savvy as we are, and I don't fault them for it. As long as they are providing adequate food, water and shelter and are giving the dog lots of love and attention I don't see the issue. When it comes to a strange dog affecting you with unwanted behaviour that I understand, but griping about other people not being as into dogs as we are or doing all the training we do? Meh.
I have not noticed this 'epidemic' of bad owners in Van - maybe I have been lucky. Some bad apples sure, but the vast majority seem decent and quite frankly, Vancouver has it tame compared to how some places (particularly with lower socioeconomic statuses) regard and treat their pets.
I have not noticed this 'epidemic' of bad owners in Van - maybe I have been lucky. Some bad apples sure, but the vast majority seem decent and quite frankly, Vancouver has it tame compared to how some places (particularly with lower socioeconomic statuses) regard and treat their pets.