No contracts?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by GGG, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. GGG

    GGG New Member

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    I have been wanting to get a Fila for years now. I have done so much research on the breed, and practically know everything about it. It is just the type of dog I want and need. I wrote Clelia Kruel (sp?) a letter and asked if she had spay/neuter contracts for her pet quality puppies.......she said no, no contracts and no pedigree provided either. Now I've been reading up alot about bad breeders and well.......a good breeder is supposed to provide a spay/neuter contract and a pedigree, so now I am not sure about buying a Fila pup from her. She didn't even ask me any questions. Alot of people say shes bad, others say shes good. But they say if you are "unsure" about the breeder, then you should just find another one. So what should I do? Also on one of her puppies I inquired about, I asked if I could see photos of the sire and dam.........she sends a good large photo of the dam, but a real tiny photo of the sire? Any advice? I think I should just go with another breeder. What do you think?
     
  2. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    I'd ask Renee, Fila or Buckshot where they got theirs from. I think they all had to travel a bit to find a good breeder, but it's totally worth it.
     
  3. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    The pedigree thing I can understand, but the fact that she didn't even ask you any questions sends up a little red flag... I'd also talk to the resident "Fila people" here.
     
  4. gaddylovesdogs

    gaddylovesdogs no touchy

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  5. well spay/nueter is not the most important... she should ask you questions and so on... pedigree should be there no matter what. but... that is just plan bs they way she has done.. sorry
     
  6. doberkim

    doberkim Naturally Natural

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    personally, if you are uncomfortable and unsure about her, then i would trust your gut instinct -- if you have doubts, then pay attention to them. too many people regret not trusting themselves in situations like this.

    i cannot imagine someone not being able to provide me with a pedigree on apurebred dog i bought from them that they bred - if they do not know the lines, how can they know temperament, health, or anything? is she breeding unknown dogs she found in the middle of nowhere?

    and if she isnt questioning you, then go away.

    and personally, yes, i would want a breeder to have a s/n clause for any pet puppy - because we dont need more puppies in this world that dont need to be here. a breeder that isnt doing their share to ensure that there arent poorly bred litters coming from their own dogs is not acting responsibly, IMO.

    i dont know this person, but i wouldnt get a dog from them just based on what you said.
     
  7. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    If you are doubtful in anyway of this breeder save your money and go to a different breeder. You need to feel you can trust and go to this person for help later on down the road if a problem ever arises with your pup. If there is even ONE person saying that she is bad then do not go to her.
     
  8. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Clelia has a reputation for being strange, even among Fila people (and we're a strange bunch)! She is directly responsible for a great deal of the welfare of the modern Fila lines; there are some who view her as the patron saint of the Fila and others who just can't stand her. She's opinionated and has her own agenda when it comes to the Fila, but the Camping line is one of the premier Fila lines. I'm surprised that you've done so much research on the Fila Brasileiro and haven't run into more information about Clelia.

    Fila breeders don't necessarily follow the same protocols as other breeders. I do have Kharma's pedigree (that includes Camping blood). Pedigrees aren't necessarily going to be supplied with a Fila sold as a pet. After all, if you aren't going to show or breed, the pedigree is just a piece of paper and the most it's good for is to make you feel like your dog is superior to someone else's, which is a dangerous mindset for a Fila owner to have.

    Filarotten's Brutus is a Camping Fila. She can probably give you some first-hand feedback regarding Clelia.
     
  9. showpug

    showpug New Member

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    I know nothing on Filas in general, but wanted to comment about the huge picture of the dam and small picture of the sire. That may be because most breeders own the dam and not the sire. They usually have a large assortment of pictures to choose from when it comes to the dam that they own and live with, but if they don't own the sire then they may have to settle with a picture that the sire's owners have sent, a show picture or a magazine picture of him. If you like her dogs then find out what type of health screens she does etc. Write a list of what is most important to you in a breeder and don't sway. If bloodlines are the number one thing that matters to you above a good owner/breeder relationship in the future then go with this lady. On the contrary if you want a mentor along the way and someone you feel very comfortable around then choose someone else.
     
  10. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    EXCELLENT advice, Pugs!

    You will want someone you can talk to about your first Fila, lol! Exceedingly strange beasties they are :D
     
  11. filarotten

    filarotten Moderator

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    Brutus is from the camping bloodlines. I did an immense amount of research on the fila breed before I choose to buy a fila. I searched every website and decided to go with the camping fila bloodline. Four reasons, The bloodlines run deep from the original brazilian bloodline, the owner has done so much for the breed, (she started the fila orginization in texas, and wrote books), and, it was in Texas. She is against any down breeding to make this breed a docile daschound(don't hate me for this,I had one I dearly loved). I wanted to view the dogs in person. I did meet the mother. I thought she was pretty, but not exceptional..to be honest. I did see pictures of the father I thought he was gorgeous. He is from Brazil so I never got to get up close and personal with him. I did see the health certs. I would not have bought Brutus without seeing them. And I do have his papers. I never had the pleasure of meeting Celia. She and her hubby were showing or something, somewhere when I picked out and got Brutus. As far as the spay/neuter contract. I am going to do want I want and I plan on keeping Brutus forever, that wasn't important to me. I only emailed to set up an appointment. I had to see for myself. What I can tell you is these people are strange, and I do mean strange. The person I met with was the person who ran or managed or whatever. It was almost like my son and I were dirty, it didn't matter how much money I was forking out, it was their principle that mattered. They are into showing and that is what is foremost to them and keeping the breed clean. However, keep in mind they have done a lot for this rare breed. If they are a little snotty about it... they feel they have reason to be that way. Right or wrong, that is the way it is.(they are a little pompous and arrogant) I actually thought at one point I was going to have to donate blood or give up my son to take Brutus home. I don't regret buying from camping. Do I care to associate with the caretaker on a daily basis? HELL NO! Would I love to meet Celia? yes, one day I would. Would I like her? I don't know.I do know she has educated the United States about a rare breed that otherwise would possibly been pushed to the side or downbred (I call it watered down) to accomodate the demand of many owners who want a dog that has been bred down to where there is no protectiveness at all..Humans have ruined so many of the original traits of may dogs.I persoanlly think they should have stayed the way they were. ( I am probably going to be chastised for that) If you want a fila for that reason... it is the wrong reason to own one. If you want one to kill everyone you see. Well, then thats another problem. I am going to get into trouble for that remark also. Brutus, at this time does not have the hard fila attitude. That's ok with me. I watch him. Everyday, depending on the situation he shows different traits. It gives me that much more time to get to know him and everything about him. I don't blame my breeder for that, I blame me. I am the one who choose him and he in turn choose me. But, I can say if you are that unhappy with camping filas go to someone else. I personally have not regretted a day with Brutus. ( I do have to admit there have been a few cussing days, ask poor Renne, she has had to hear them. That was not do to the blood line but to the breed).There are very few puppys' that would let a human child crawl all over them, play with the toe nails and check out the teeth individually without some retaliation. Brutus does not retaliate but instead follows my granddaughter everywhere. He keeps her in his sight at all times. For 5 months old, in my estimation that is pretty special for a puppy. It is up to you as an owner as to what you want in your dog, and how you raise them. Just remember to socialize, and socialize somemore if you want your fila in public.
     
  12. filarotten

    filarotten Moderator

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    The only complaint I do have with camping filas was I had such a hard time getting Brutes shot records. (actually I never got them) He had two from the breeder and I did ask several times for that. My vet did get in touch with them but never did receive the fax from them. My vet who is very cautious did give Brutus one extra shot just to make sure. I never should have left there without the shot records. Every puppy I have ever had from a breeder came with shot records. He is the only one I did not receive when I left. I guess no matter how much you learn as a buyer you can still forget somethings. Make a list before you go, and check it twice.
     
  13. GGG

    GGG New Member

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    I have decided to go with another breeder....I just do not feel comfortable with this lady. Boa Sorte's dogs look very nice. They have beautiful heads!
     
  14. candy722

    candy722 New Member

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    You should always go with a person that you can trust. Good choice.
     
  15. filarotten

    filarotten Moderator

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    Boa Sorte does have nice dogs. Go with the one you feel comfortable with.
     

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