New Puppy...

Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
#41
I'll chime in here if it's okay. I'll tell you what I'd do if I were faced with the situation of taking care of a pup that age if unable to get it back with it's litter mates. What I'd do, as it was mentioned is teach it what it learns from his littermates and mom (as was already mentioned but I'll reiterate because it's so important). Bite inhibition: It's important not to scold or be very harsh in response to puppy biting. Biting and rough play is absolutely normal and acceptable in doggie society BUT there is a limit. Dogs don't know that human skin is very, very fragile. When the pup bites anywhere close to causing pain, I'd give a quick, high pitched squeal (not so loud as to cause him to cower) and end the attention immediately, turn away, walk away, whatever....but playtime with humans is over. Then try again in a minute. If he mouths gently, let him...show him that gentle mouthing works to get attention and affection. Repeat every single time. (There will be a lot of jumping up and down from the couch and walking away. Plan on it. It will go on for some time)
Thing is, Dober, with an APBT, ideally you'd like for them to learn to NOT mouth at humans. Not because they are going to hurt a human, but because too many people have such a mistaken view of APBTs desire to bite people. We know it's not the case, and we know it's all in play, but the hysterical idiot who is pushing BSL or has watched too many episodes of Nancy Grace or other Fox-spew doesn't know and doesn't WANT to know.

Best that the bite inhibition be as close to total as possible and get redirected to a suitable object.
 

Tahla9999

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
1,105
Likes
0
Points
36
#42
I'll chime in here if it's okay. I'll tell you what I'd do if I were faced with the situation of taking care of a pup that age if unable to get it back with it's litter mates. What I'd do, as it was mentioned is teach it what it learns from his littermates and mom (as was already mentioned but I'll reiterate because it's so important). Bite inhibition: It's important not to scold or be very harsh in response to puppy biting. Biting and rough play is absolutely normal and acceptable in doggie society BUT there is a limit. Dogs don't know that human skin is very, very fragile. When the pup bites anywhere close to causing pain, I'd give a quick, high pitched squeal (not so loud as to cause him to cower) and end the attention immediately, turn away, walk away, whatever....but playtime with humans is over. Then try again in a minute. If he mouths gently, let him...show him that gentle mouthing works to get attention and affection. Repeat every single time. (There will be a lot of jumping up and down from the couch and walking away. Plan on it. It will go on for some time)

Later, once he gets this down (which will be a process of both learning and maturity) you can change that gentle mouthing to happen only upon invitation because it would get obnoxious if he did it all the time. You change it by reinforcing/rewarding for the gentle mouthing upon cue and walk away for gentle mouthing without being invited) But while learning to regulate his bite pressure, allow very, very gentle mouthing. The ending of playtime, affection etc must come immediately upon even close to painful biting and it must happen absolutely consistently. Speaking to the pup....even a "no" or pushing him away, holding onto his muzzle...any further attending to can be perceived as attention (any attention is better than none) so that can get in the way of learning. Everyone must do the same thing who interacts with him. One quick ouchie squeal and walk away or turn your back.

Another thing he's missing out on by not being with littermates is learning tolerance for frustration. He's learned some since he was with them for a while, but it needs to be continued by humans. Littermates push and squeal at eachother, fighting for a nipple. One gets pushed away one minute, another one gets squeezed out another time. The same thing goes for other things; attention and grooming/ bonding from the mother. They push and squeeze, step on eachother, clamor around. What humans can do is try to emulate this but being VERY careful not to over do it. That's important. Once or twice while he's eating or sleeping a gentle pressing away just for a 2 or 3 seconds, then let him go back to what he was doing. You don't want to cause over-the-top frustration as that will backfire. When singleton puppies are born, they often miss out on those lessons in building tolerance to mild frustration. A gentle rolling on the back for a tummy rub and affection is good too. It's associated NOT with punishment, but it may be a little uncomfortable for a moment. And yet, it's tied together with a taste of something good, a belly rub and affection. This conditions the pup to tolerate something that might otherwise cause a dog some serious defensiveness later on.

Rubbing toes a little bit, having him learn to get his nails clipped early on will help later. It should all be associated with yummy treats and a cheerful attitude...never undue force or tenseness/anger. Never. Same goes for other grooming; brushing, cleaning ears, teeth brushing. Started early, mildly, gradually, this pup will be able to tolerate these things nicely as he matures.

Socialization...getting him use to people coming and going, normal household noises as long as he's not over-whelmed or frightened is good. Be careful to back off on things if he shows fear and start with a more mild form of these things. Be careful about other dogs that you don't know for a while. When he's about 7,8 or 9 weeks old, other gentle, vaccinated pups who you know are healthy are good to get him around....all very controlled, not just random dogs. At the age of about 8 or 9 weeks, IMO, it's important to get him out and about, have people of various ages, sizes, shapes come over to visit, have him see various environments, objects and a whole lot more every day. But watch that you don't go where a lot of random dogs go. You do need to exercise reasonable care that he doesn't pick up some awful disease. Maybe just go to a friend's house or other place where a lot of dogs don't go. You can not over-socialize a dog IMO but you can over whelm him so a balance has to be found and frightening experiences must be prevented. After 2 series of puppy shots, I believe it's relatively safe to get him into a puppy class.

Positive reinforcement type training goes a long way in teaching a pup what he needs to know while keeping him happy and enjoying training. He learns how to learn better and the bond created is so much better than using a lot of force and punishment. (my opinion) But there are some things your folks can find out if they don't know already. A good training class, a few excellent books, some good links online can all be recommended here, plus help right here on this forum to give this pup a better than average chance of smooth sailing.

Anyhow, I'm sure there is a lot more that better trainers can advise or think of that I have not thought of. But I thought I'd toss in some more ideas just in case any of it might help.
OMG thank you so much for this advice. My two friends are coming over to meet him tomorrow, his first interaction to new people. He will be introduce to my friend's adult Husky in a couple of days, most likely Tuesday or Monday. I had no idea about the frustration thing, so I will do. One thing I notice about my pup, I had him wrestling with a stuff animal, and I squealed when he was biting down on it, and he immediately let go. It seems he learn somethings from his littermates after all.:)
 

smkie

pointer/labrador/terrier
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
55,184
Likes
35
Points
48
#43
NOthing to say that hasn't already been said. I do want to say Congrats on your Puppy and good luck!
 

Maxy24

Active Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
8,070
Likes
2
Points
38
Age
32
Location
Massachusetts
#44
Thing is, Dober, with an APBT, ideally you'd like for them to learn to NOT mouth at humans. Not because they are going to hurt a human, but because too many people have such a mistaken view of APBTs desire to bite people.
The process of allowing the dog to bite without hurting is used to teach the dog HOW to control the jaws. If he never gets to use his jaws on human skin he will never learn how to bite a human properly (yes that sounds weird but I'll explain). Many times you hear of a dog biting someone who stepped on their paw, tripped on them, fell near them or was clearly giving some sort of warning bite without intending to kill and without multiple bites (ie: an attack or mauling). But they broke the skin. The thing is much of the time I don't think they intended to do that much harm, the same bite pressure on another dog would not have broken the skin.
These dogs were probably never allowed to put their mouths on people's hands and learn at what point it hurts the people. They did learn it from their litter and so they assume that they can bite you with the same pressure as they would a dog and it will have the same affect, a warning that does not do much harm but gets the point across.
The thing is we break easier and no one told them. By doing what Doberluv said you teach the dog how hard they can bite before it's not a warning bite anymore.
Sometimes a dog just feels he has to bite, a dog who never learned how hard is too hard on a human will bite as if he's warning another dog where as one trained like Doberluv suggested will usually give a warning bite fit for people. It's trained in case of emergency so that if the dog does bite he does less damage.

These dogs don't learn to go around mouthing people because of the next part that Doberluv mentioned. once the dog gets a good handle on when biting hurts people and when it's soft enough you THEN stop allowing any mouthing (unless in invited rough play which will of course be kept under control because these dogs have learned how hard they can bite hands in rough play). The dog has now been hardwired into how hard people can stand a bite and is now learning not to bite. If the need arises however he will be able to bite without significant damage.


Hope that all makes sense :D
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#45
Tahla...I hope some of that will help. There are different schools of thought about everyting and it's always best to look into things thoroughly so you're comfortable.

That's cute how he let go of the squeaky toy. "good boy." Yes, it looks like he's gotten some of that from his littermates. Great. Now, it's the humans' job to continue with it. Puppies that aren't with humans wind up staying with their doggie families longer and learn stuff more thoroughly. Since we take them away sooner, we have to be the substitute teachers.

Along the lines of bite inhibition, it's also important not to let him bite or pull on hair, clothing, shoe laces because those things don't hurt us and we can't tell how hard he's biting and might not say, "ouch" when that much pressure would normally hurt. So, that kind of stuff needs to be discouraged the same way....with a yelp and ignore. Redirect to an appropriate chew toy or Nyla bone, Kong etc and praise.


Thing is, Dober, with an APBT, ideally you'd like for them to learn to NOT mouth at humans. Not because they are going to hurt a human, but because too many people have such a mistaken view of APBTs desire to bite people. We know it's not the case, and we know it's all in play, but the hysterical idiot who is pushing BSL or has watched too many episodes of Nancy Grace or other Fox-spew doesn't know and doesn't WANT to know.
He WILL learn not to mouth humans....later. I don't have pitbulls and maybe pitbull people will have another angle to this. I'm by no means a pitbull expert. But as far as dogs in general, (and since pitbulls are still dogs) lol.... in my opinion it is exceedingly important for ALL dogs to learn what kind of bite pressure is okay and what kind isn't. If a dog ever....for any reason does end up biting someone (and any dog can) it can mean the difference between a pinch and ripping someone's face off. It doesn't matter that he's a pitbull. Actually all the more important to protect them is to teach them about how to bite if they are going to bite. This does not teach him to bite. He will learn, once he understands gentle mouthing vs. hard biting that mouthing is also unwelcome and unworkable by putting it on cue ONLY. Then a little later, reducing the instances where he is invited to mouth until this behavior is faded, with an occasional invitation for a little quiet, affectionate play mouthing to keep him in the know. Then it's "enough" or "leave it."

If they even get their tail slammed in a car door, they will very often instinctively turn and bite. If they have had bite inhibition training, it increases the odds that while they may indeed react, will catch themselves and soften the bite. When playing and possibly getting carried away, they will have learned to soften the bite. There's no question in my mind about it being imperative to teach good and thorough bite inhibition to all puppies.
 
S

Squishy22

Guest
#46
I got reggin when he was 5 weeks. I dont remember having too much of a problem with him mouthing. He wasnt very mouthy from the start, but when he did mouth I would squeal and he instantly caught onto that. Now he never puts his mouth on people, even in play. Cant remember the last time he did. Maybe his personality has something to do with that. He will hold madisons hand in his mouth when she plays with his tongue, but thats different I think. lol.

The one thing I regret not doing is handling his feet more. Because of that, he will not let anyone take clippers or a dremel to his toes. My fiance who is over 300 pounds could not get him to stay put when the clippers came out, so thats a no go. We would have to put him to sleep in order to clip his nails.
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#48
Reggin. You can condition your dog to be fine with clipping nails. If I could do it with an over-the-top, vicious, balistic dog who was so abused, so traumatized during puppyhood with this that we could get no vet to clip her nails without anesthesizing her, (muzzle not good enough for them) you can do it too. If you want to know how I went about it, I'll post it for you. I wrote it somewhere, either here or another forum.
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#49
Please be exceedingly careful when introducing him to adult dogs right now, especially huskies, no offense husky people, but I've heard too many stories about prey drive in them and huskies killing puppies and things that it makes me paranoid. Personally, I'd hold off on adult dog intros just a little longer...a month or so and only with dogs that you know are good with puppies. Puppies often are tolerated better by dogs up until the puppies are about 4 months old, (puppy license) But not always and not if the dog sees them as prey. And heavy supervision...the people being right in there close almost hovering for a while till you see how things are going. I'd start out with puppies but only ones that have had their puppy vaccines and are healthy. Then maybe move onto older pups or adults that you know for sure how they act around other puppies. While being careful, it's important not to let your puppy know that you're concerned or nervous....if you are. LOL.
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#50

Dekka

Just try me..
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#51
Hi.. some fantastic advice (as per usual :D) has been stated already.

I just want to give you some 'hope'

I brought Kaiden home at 5 weeks. A bit of a story there but I figured he was better off coming home with me than staying there.

I worked hard with him and we did all sorts of classes when he was little. He is now one of the best socialized JRTs I have ever met. With people and with dogs. Part of that is his breeding (genetics) but part is definitively all the effort we put in socializing him.

So don't overly worry. What is done is done, and if you and your family stick with all the training and socializing I am sure your pup will turn out fine.
 

Tahla9999

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
1,105
Likes
0
Points
36
#52
Hi.. some fantastic advice (as per usual :D) has been stated already.

I just want to give you some 'hope'

I brought Kaiden home at 5 weeks. A bit of a story there but I figured he was better off coming home with me than staying there.

I worked hard with him and we did all sorts of classes when he was little. He is now one of the best socialized JRTs I have ever met. With people and with dogs. Part of that is his breeding (genetics) but part is definitively all the effort we put in socializing him.

So don't overly worry. What is done is done, and if you and your family stick with all the training and socializing I am sure your pup will turn out fine.
Thank You Dekka! You did gave me some hope.

Update on the pup. Okay, he is fitting in comfortably and becoming more feisty as the days go by. Right now he is only comfortable in the living room, but he is becoming more braver and adventuring farther into the house.

I called my friends over( four people came) to meet him. He seemed to like the attention, going up to everyone and sniffing their feet. They took turns picking them up and he gave them kisses!:) One of my friends have a border collie who is great with puppies, and later on in the week, they might see each other( never mind the Husky).

Another thing, my mom told me that the breeder said that the pups have seizures now and again when they sleep, and that it will disappear when they are older. Is that true?

And also, he has yet to adventure outside. My mom did brought a dog jacket for him, but unfortunately, she brought it too small. She won't be able to buy another until Saturday.
 

bubbatd

Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
64,812
Likes
1
Points
0
Age
91
#53
Pups do not have seizures !!! They do twitch when sleeping , but that's dreaming . Won't say what I'd like to do to that " breeder " !!! Please check on what vetting this pup has had . I think you mentioned sending de-worming meds with it . I never had pups with worms , but had stools checked 2 times before pups were sent home at 8 weeks . Thank God you're there for this baby !
 

Dekka

Just try me..
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#54
I wouldn't worry so much about outside if its cold and nasty till he is a bit older. DO check up on what actual vetting he had.
 

Tahla9999

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
1,105
Likes
0
Points
36
#55
Okay, I am not sure what a puppy seizure looks like. He does twitch a lot in his sleep, but there are times when he has his eyes partly open, and the eyes are moving back and forth, I pet him and then he goes right back to sleep. Other than that, he seems okay. My mom isn't here right now, but I'll ask her about what the breeder gave her tomorrow.

Okay, I don't think it is seizures. I just read a story about a puppy with seizures and it is nothing like that.
 

bubbatd

Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
64,812
Likes
1
Points
0
Age
91
#56
If you've ever seen a seizure , you'll know the difference . This is just a very young pup who should be with it's Mom and litter .
 

Tahla9999

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
1,105
Likes
0
Points
36
#57
If you've ever seen a seizure , you'll know the difference . This is just a very young pup who should be with it's Mom and litter .
Yeah, I so wish that my parents had brought me with them. If I knew the pup was 5 weeks, I would have talk my parents out of it. They just like to take me for granted, even though they know I have the most dog knowledge in the family.:mad:
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#58
It sounds like he's just in rem (repid eye movement) sleep when his eyes are moving or half open....the twitching. Sounds like everything is coming along great. He is lucky to have you and your family!
 

Tahla9999

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
1,105
Likes
0
Points
36
#59
It sounds like he's just in rem (repid eye movement) sleep when his eyes are moving or half open....the twitching. Sounds like everything is coming along great. He is lucky to have you and your family!
Thank You, but I have to say I am lucky to have you guys. I tend to panic before I get my head straight, and all of you calmed me down. I posted on another forum and all I got was four responses, none really helping me. Got to say this is the best forum!!:hail:
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top