new in agility
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I just have a few quick ones:
1) NO corrections! EVER! Agility is the time for fun, and corrections have no place in the sport. This is about having a great time with your dog, and it's the happiest dogs that have the fastest runs.
2) Focus on contact zones from the beginning. While you want to make sure that you're not going *too* slow, in my opinion it's better to err on the side of slow, than to have a dog that thinks nothing of launching itself from the top of the a-frame, or diving off the middle of the dog walk. (It's a good way to destroy an animal's joints). A dog that has a history of missing contact zones is notoriously hard to train out of the habit (of course it's not impossible, but it's a lot easier if you never have a problem in the first place). Especially if you've got a really enthusiastic dog, one that is highly motivated or excited by the excitement in your voice, working on speed won't be a problem.
Have a great time with your girl!
1) NO corrections! EVER! Agility is the time for fun, and corrections have no place in the sport. This is about having a great time with your dog, and it's the happiest dogs that have the fastest runs.
2) Focus on contact zones from the beginning. While you want to make sure that you're not going *too* slow, in my opinion it's better to err on the side of slow, than to have a dog that thinks nothing of launching itself from the top of the a-frame, or diving off the middle of the dog walk. (It's a good way to destroy an animal's joints). A dog that has a history of missing contact zones is notoriously hard to train out of the habit (of course it's not impossible, but it's a lot easier if you never have a problem in the first place). Especially if you've got a really enthusiastic dog, one that is highly motivated or excited by the excitement in your voice, working on speed won't be a problem.
Have a great time with your girl!
I DISAGREE WITH NO CORRECTIONS! How is a dog supposed to know what to do you if dont correct it! I've been to numerous agility classes with many different trainers and my girl loved the "no corrections" trainer. She thought it was a hay day! I dont have to come when I'm called, I dont have to retrieve right away I can take my time.... RIDICULOUS. There is a common medium. There is a way to correct, so the dog understands that what it has done is wrong. Then you show the dog what you want it to do and reward it. This way the dog actually understands and you will excel much faster and you'll see improvement every session.
I also recommend basic obedience classes before any agility. There are simple things a dog must learn before throwing them into something as complex as agility. It requires distance work and patience on both parts.
Good Luck!
I also recommend basic obedience classes before any agility. There are simple things a dog must learn before throwing them into something as complex as agility. It requires distance work and patience on both parts.
Good Luck!
Some dogs work better without corrections. My Abbey is a soft dog and not very confident. Even a mild verbal correction (such as 'uh oh') when she missed the entrance to the weave poles, for example, was enough to shut her down. It was better to call her back in a happy voice and try again, keeping everything very upbeat.
I agree
I forgot to mention that thank you for correcting me. I totally agree, if you have a hard working dog corrections will only strengthen your dogs understanding of agility or anything that you want it to do. On the other hand, low-confidence dogs, as you mentioned, will shut down and won't want to work anymore. Although even low confidence dogs need to be shown what you want from them if they've done something wrong. This doesn't mean that you give a CORRECTION persay, but instead show them what they were supposed to do and than reward them.
Thank you for correcting me!
I forgot to mention that thank you for correcting me. I totally agree, if you have a hard working dog corrections will only strengthen your dogs understanding of agility or anything that you want it to do. On the other hand, low-confidence dogs, as you mentioned, will shut down and won't want to work anymore. Although even low confidence dogs need to be shown what you want from them if they've done something wrong. This doesn't mean that you give a CORRECTION persay, but instead show them what they were supposed to do and than reward them.
Thank you for correcting me!
Sorry, I wasn't trying to correct you... just bringing up an alternate point of view from past experience. I seem to attract soft dogs and training them without corrections (or very mild verbal corrections) is my normal mode of training. I agree that obedience training is a must (in fact it's a requirement for people signing up for beginner lessons with the agility club I belong to.)
I've seen a lot of handlers excuse themselves from the ring when their high drive dogs get too out of control or don't pay attention. They consider not letting the dog 'play' to be punishment enough.
I've seen a lot of handlers excuse themselves from the ring when their high drive dogs get too out of control or don't pay attention. They consider not letting the dog 'play' to be punishment enough.
First off- it would be silly to begin agility classes without a solid base in obedience. I wouldn't think of working a dog in agility without having it first know the basics.
What Snark was talking about was exactly what I meant. If my dog screws up, I calmly bring it back to the point where I need it, and then run through the course again. It usually takes one or two tries before the dog picks up on it, but as far as my animals are concerned, doing the same old boring thing time after time is correction enough! The really high drive dogs settle even more when you excuse them from the ring. For these animals, this is the ultimate playground, and there's nothing worse than having to leave it.
The idea is to make sure my dogs never lever lose enthusiasm for the sport. Once that spark is gone, it's hard to build it back up again, and enthusiastic dogs are speedy dogs. While I suppose traditional corrections work for some people, I haven't needed to use them in my training, and my animals are pretty high-drive. Even the best dogs are going to run to the wrong obstacle here and there, and frankly, that isn't the kind of mistake I'm all that worried about- we eventually get those clear runs! I'm more concerned with fun, safety and speed, and with a proper base in obedience training and a focus on contact zones in the beginning, I haven't had too much of a problem.
I don't really consider this particular method of training "ridiculous," but to each their own.
What Snark was talking about was exactly what I meant. If my dog screws up, I calmly bring it back to the point where I need it, and then run through the course again. It usually takes one or two tries before the dog picks up on it, but as far as my animals are concerned, doing the same old boring thing time after time is correction enough! The really high drive dogs settle even more when you excuse them from the ring. For these animals, this is the ultimate playground, and there's nothing worse than having to leave it.
The idea is to make sure my dogs never lever lose enthusiasm for the sport. Once that spark is gone, it's hard to build it back up again, and enthusiastic dogs are speedy dogs. While I suppose traditional corrections work for some people, I haven't needed to use them in my training, and my animals are pretty high-drive. Even the best dogs are going to run to the wrong obstacle here and there, and frankly, that isn't the kind of mistake I'm all that worried about- we eventually get those clear runs! I'm more concerned with fun, safety and speed, and with a proper base in obedience training and a focus on contact zones in the beginning, I haven't had too much of a problem.
I don't really consider this particular method of training "ridiculous," but to each their own.
When I said "ridiculous" I wasn't speaking about "no corrections" generally, I was speaking from my own experience with my dog. How it was ridiculous the amount of time that was lost due to her cleverness. She knew I wouldn't correct her so she took advantage of it.
As I mentioned above the "no corrections" is sometimes the ONLY thing that works with some lower self-confidence dogs. But if you have a dog with high self-confidence a correction isn't going to affect it's perfomance at all only improve it.
As I mentioned above the "no corrections" is sometimes the ONLY thing that works with some lower self-confidence dogs. But if you have a dog with high self-confidence a correction isn't going to affect it's perfomance at all only improve it.
My dogs are pretty much the epitome of self-confident, yet I still don't use corrections (save a verbal "uh-uh" or "no" for redirection). I think it might be a *bit* over the line to make a blanket statement that corrections will only improve the performance of a high-confidence dog. I haven't found this to be true with my dogs, and they lack nothing in the confidence department. 
I wouldn't even THINK of using a Shiba in a breeding program that didn't believe the world revolved around it. At 6 months of age Kimi had adult Golden Retrievers and Malamutes alike rolling over on to their backs in submission to her, LOL. By 6 and a half months she had confronted her first adult male pig, and was already displaying the "spirited boldness" the breed standard demands. She hit the end of her lead, stood "like a little Mt. Fuji," and stared him right in the eye. She didn't move until I picked her up. It was quite a sight indeed- this tiny little puppy, ready to take on a pig weighing at least 400 lbs! She is an alpha bitch in every sense of the word.
In all honesty, most people in Shibas will tell you that they wish their dogs had a little *less* self confidence. I know quite a few breeders who owned both Shibas and Akitas, who have switched to one breed or the other after losing an over-confident Shiba to an Akita in a fight.
Shibas tend to be clever to an absolutely wicked degree. Many people will tell you that they border on cunning. But in the same turn, they won't stand for any sort of traditional correction- you immediately lose all respect in their eyes, and they shut down. (I experienced this first-hand with my first Shiba, and we changed methods FAST).
Thus, I don't bother with traditional corrections, but perhaps this has a lot to do with *breed* characterstics. Since my first experience with Tai, I haven't been to another class that uses correction-based training, so I honestly wouldn't be too qualified in giving an opinion on its effectiveness in agility. I have personally liked what I've seen come out of the positive-reinforcement classes though.
At any rate (and all semantics aside), the most important thing is to find a method that works for you and your dog, and having fun while doing it! Not every method works for everyone, and this of course is something that I (and probably a great deal of us at Chaz!) could stand to remember!
I wouldn't even THINK of using a Shiba in a breeding program that didn't believe the world revolved around it. At 6 months of age Kimi had adult Golden Retrievers and Malamutes alike rolling over on to their backs in submission to her, LOL. By 6 and a half months she had confronted her first adult male pig, and was already displaying the "spirited boldness" the breed standard demands. She hit the end of her lead, stood "like a little Mt. Fuji," and stared him right in the eye. She didn't move until I picked her up. It was quite a sight indeed- this tiny little puppy, ready to take on a pig weighing at least 400 lbs! She is an alpha bitch in every sense of the word.
In all honesty, most people in Shibas will tell you that they wish their dogs had a little *less* self confidence. I know quite a few breeders who owned both Shibas and Akitas, who have switched to one breed or the other after losing an over-confident Shiba to an Akita in a fight.
Shibas tend to be clever to an absolutely wicked degree. Many people will tell you that they border on cunning. But in the same turn, they won't stand for any sort of traditional correction- you immediately lose all respect in their eyes, and they shut down. (I experienced this first-hand with my first Shiba, and we changed methods FAST).
Thus, I don't bother with traditional corrections, but perhaps this has a lot to do with *breed* characterstics. Since my first experience with Tai, I haven't been to another class that uses correction-based training, so I honestly wouldn't be too qualified in giving an opinion on its effectiveness in agility. I have personally liked what I've seen come out of the positive-reinforcement classes though.
At any rate (and all semantics aside), the most important thing is to find a method that works for you and your dog, and having fun while doing it! Not every method works for everyone, and this of course is something that I (and probably a great deal of us at Chaz!
) could stand to remember!
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That's exactly what I would define a correction as! And exactly what I do. Uh-Oh! and redirecting the dog to show them what you want it to do is what I would classify as a correction. I dont know if you think I mean a physical correction :O because I would never recommend someone to physically correct their dog!
Aha! Now we get to the root of the problem, LOL. When I was speaking of corrections in my first post I was talking about any kind of a physical correction. I can't remember where this particular thread was, but in it someone was talking about having their dog on a choke or a prong during an agility class, so if need be they could give the dog a pop on the collar. Besides just being outright dangerous (what happens if the collar got caught on an obstacle and the dog leaped off??!!), that made next to no sense to me. In the first place, you couldn't possibly be moving that fast or working that efficiently if you were close enough to administer a correction. And secondly, I find it to be exactly opposite the whole spirit of the sport.
I probably should've made this more clear in my first post, and said that it is no place for a *physical* correction. (Although it's no place for screamers either...some of the people you see ranting at their dogs are just unbelievable, LOL).
I probably should've made this more clear in my first post, and said that it is no place for a *physical* correction. (Although it's no place for screamers either...some of the people you see ranting at their dogs are just unbelievable, LOL).
LOL, oh no I just assumed that no one here would ever dream of physical corrections when it comes to agility! ANd as you mentioned most of the time your going to be too far away. I think the "Uh-Oh!" works great, they know that whatever they've done is wrong so they'll look to you for direction.
Yes, the screamers are pretty bad, in my lesson theres a lady that just yells and yells, it's like ok, you screamed tire like 40 times, I don't think he gets it ! LOL
Yes, the screamers are pretty bad, in my lesson theres a lady that just yells and yells, it's like ok, you screamed tire like 40 times, I don't think he gets it ! LOL
About verbal correction, we had a trainer that was pretty medium, but definitely supported stern "NO's". Gonzo dislikes the teeter and dog-walk so much, that, under her direction I would be saying "NO" non-stop. Which led to him just disliking Agility a lot and auto-shutting down, unless I was just running him for fun.
I do support stern "NO" for some dogs while training them, but I personally just can't! In Flyball, he gets tons of praise for every little good thing and I just ignore him/don't treat him if he misses jumps or anything (ignoring him breaks his heart, as it is). He did have chasing problems, and when he was focusing on other dogs I DID give him a stern verbal correction. But, I've found with a lot of herding breeds, when people give verbal corrections while working them on equiptment, it can have a bad effect... like with my silly boy. >;P
Oh... I'm... off topic now. To the OP: make sure you have great off-leash recall down with other dogs and distractions, make sure your dog knows how to "watch" you, brings LOTS of good-smelling soft treats, invest in a treat bag that clips onto your beltloop/ties around, and go to class with a good attitude! Remember that it's just for fun, no matter how seriously some people take dog sports. When you start off, I don't recommend verbal corrections for doing an obstacle wrong, just SHOW your pup what you want.
I do support stern "NO" for some dogs while training them, but I personally just can't! In Flyball, he gets tons of praise for every little good thing and I just ignore him/don't treat him if he misses jumps or anything (ignoring him breaks his heart, as it is). He did have chasing problems, and when he was focusing on other dogs I DID give him a stern verbal correction. But, I've found with a lot of herding breeds, when people give verbal corrections while working them on equiptment, it can have a bad effect... like with my silly boy. >;P
Oh... I'm... off topic now. To the OP: make sure you have great off-leash recall down with other dogs and distractions, make sure your dog knows how to "watch" you, brings LOTS of good-smelling soft treats, invest in a treat bag that clips onto your beltloop/ties around, and go to class with a good attitude! Remember that it's just for fun, no matter how seriously some people take dog sports. When you start off, I don't recommend verbal corrections for doing an obstacle wrong, just SHOW your pup what you want.