need info from horse owners

Discussion in 'Cat and Pet Forum' started by azcowgirl, May 20, 2005.

  1. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    The behaviour you have described is for wild stallions not trained stallions. Any stallion that goes nuts or insane even around a mare in heat has not been properly trained. We have four stallions here and not one of them kicks when anyone enters their corral or stalls. They do pasture breeding in most cases and they are on a routinely bases turned out with geldings. Hell in winter they all go out together. Never ever had a problem. Stallions can be a handful but please don't suggest that they are wild untameable beasts because that is far from the truth. Just like any other animal they require training and they require respect. I can guarantee it would be unadviseable for one of my stallions to kick or bite at me because they will find themselves on a lunge line and very very tired afterwards. My 2 & 3 year old human babies ride Joker with me on trail rides with mares, geldings and even another stallion which my husband rides. Never had a problem actually on our trail rides the mares are worse than the stallions. The only reason to not geld a stallion is if it is to improve the breed and to do breeding with. Otherwise by all means gelding is your best option. However my fences here are 5 feet in hight and no one jumps out or knocks it down. It is all wood fencing and there is no electric fence had bad experiences with that. All of my stallions can see out no problem and they are corralled side by side. No problems! It comes with the training and the breed. I have owned and dealt with many stallions and we had one that was a bit of a knot head but other than that there was never a problem. I actually show two of my stallions in shows and there are mares sometimes in heat in the same classes and again no problems. They are not all sex crazied maniacs.
     
  2. stirder

    stirder Guest

    no, didnt say they are untameable. but after 26 years on horse back and from my parents nearly 60 years training horses, I will not tell anyone that horses are predictable and teddy bears. as I said I have been around some, but most of the ones Ive seen, no matter how safe to ride, require experienced riders/trainers. I suggest going to a horse forum, or better yet a stallion forum, and asking what they think. theres a reason very few people other than professional breeders keep stallions. I've ridden and trained a few, no they are not untrainable. I think some are even better than geldings, but they are tricky and can be extremely dangerous. she sounds like she is fairly new to horses if she has never heard of a stallion pen, or that boarders dont usually take stallions. thats not a bad thing, its great that she is in to horses and trying to learn. but I doubt her ability at this point.
     
  3. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    I just felt you were making all stallions appear dangerous or untrainable and I strongly disagreed. I too have many many years experience with horses and stallions and I take great pride in training all my horses to be quiet dependable mounts, stallions, mare or geldings.
     
  4. stirder

    stirder Guest

    I just meant that it takes a lot of experience, training, and patience for a stallion to be safe. the 2 safest we ever trained were one that we foaled and imprinted from birth. and the other was a wild mustang from the dakotahs. jon lyons broke him witha topless horse trailer, put the stallion into it, filled it with wheat grains. I was 12 and wasnt there but it was one of his clinics.
    also I have red flags about the "will not geld him" statement. why not? the red flags are, you didnt want to neuter rocky, even mentioned you were considering breeding him. bred chihuahuas and sold the pups to buy a new dog. whats the problem with gelding this guy??? make him more manageable. maybe in a few years get another one and not geld him after you know what you are doing???
     
  5. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    That sure makes more sense to me now maybe I just read wrong. I have imprinted one of these stallions from birth and one was imprinted from birth by someone who trains the way I do, bought him as a yearling. The other two were bought at a later date they were both 4 years old and wild monsters but I worked very very hard with them. There are to many kids who come for lessons so I can't have anything dangerous here, it just makes no sense to put kids in a dangerous situation. I have to agree with the won't geld statement. Why Not? Is he registered? Has he passed all health checks? Has he been xrayed? Has he been temperment tested? Breeding horses is much the same as breeding dogs believe it or not. If your stallion cannot improve the breed or contribute something good to the breed then it should not be left as a stallion. I have been disappointed before with foals that I thought hey here's my next stallion and it just did not work out, temperment, or confirmation wise. We all want to believe that our horse [stallion] is the best ever but we have to be realistic and responsible too.
     
  6. stirder

    stirder Guest

    I dont know, you may have misunderstood but wouldnt say it was you fault. my thoughts sometimes come out than I can type and it doesnt ound as good as I thought it. I'll have to go back and read it, see if it sounds like what I intended to say. :)
    I hear you about breeding and being dissapointed. we bred our cutting mare (a palomino quarter horse) to one of the countries top reining stallions from the Bar S Ranch in Texas (dont remember his name, have to ask my dad, but he was black quarter horse) years ago. we got a beautiful buckskin colt. we did imprint training and worked even harder on him than the last colt that was born (for those who arent horse people, a colt is a male, a philly is a female, a foal is both) and ended up with a yearling who acted as if he had been born wild and stayed that way for 10 years. both the stud and mare had the sweetest, gentlest temperaments ever. this little fella was possessed. we had a pro trainer test him and he said "shoot him". we of course didnt but we did sell him before too long. some are gentle as a teddy bear and you could practically twist their n**'s in a vice and theyd stand still. others are just too strong willed, too dominant, or whatever you wanna call it, to be trained/tamed.
     
  7. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    colt is a male under four years old then becomes stallion if intact
    gelding is an altered male
    filly is a female under four years
    mare is femle over four years
     
  8. stirder

    stirder Guest

    okay, I forgot to be specific didnt I? :( thanks yuckaduck.
     
  9. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    that's okay look at my spelling of female i forgot the a. getting very tired i guess.
     
  10. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    I just got a call this morning from a first time horse owner who bought a stallion who was untrained. She has been asked to leave her boarding stable because they can't do anything with the horse and they say it is bordering dangerous. Well I told her she could board it at my place but only under the condition that she take lessons which are free with board and allow me to work on instilling so manners in this boy. Not all stallions recieve proper training and this is an example as to why most stables refuse stallions. Owners just don't have the knowledge or the time to instill proper manners.
     
  11. stirder

    stirder Guest

    in my experience a lot of boarders dont have anywhere near enough stallion experience to even consider trying to lead one around, let alone fully provide for it. in most cases a boarder/trainer SHOULD have enough horse experience to be able to care for a stallion, but they also have to consider the fact that most of them have hired help who may not have any horse sense. their jobs may be to feed, water and clean stalls and nothing more. due to the fact that in general stallions are more testy they would not want to risk their help getting hurt and sueing them. not saying a gelding or a mare couldnt be even more dangerous than a stallion, I've met some very nasty geldings and mares, but stallions are a higher risk. if for no other reason than the general public sees them that way. like with dogs, if you have a pit bull the public is a lot more likely to believe it hurt someone and is viscious than if you have a lab. in most cases it is unfair, but its a risk many boarders wont take. it may even be written in their insurance policy (as a boarding/training facility) that stallions are not covered.
     
  12. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    Actually our insurance policy does cover stallions and also covers any damage done by them whether to a person or property. I have placed a sign on his door though no one is to touch because he is a bit of a handful. Not nearly as bad as described though. He will only have turn out on his own when everyone else is in just to be safer at least for now. I also have no hired hands it is myself and my husband. My husband is a learning man so he will not go near any horses unless okayed by me. I will have a padlock on the stall door though because I have little kids that come for lessons and I refuse to risk any dangerous situations to them. See you must have experience and common sense to deal with stallions. I believe I have this so for me there is no big deal boarding stallions or working with them. However this does not mean I will never be injured because that can happen to anyone at any given time with any given animal. For an inexperience horse person and even some who call themselves proffessionals, a stallion is not a good choice. Geldings are the safest, mares a close second. I only place mares second due to the fact that some can get down right miserable when they are in heat.
     
  13. stirder

    stirder Guest

    :) yes mares can be pretty mean, just like women (just kidding ladies). I agree totally, I have handled stallions and trust myself enough to try, and to give up if they are beyond my experience/talents whatever you want to call it. a lot of boarders do have hired help though, and wether it is fair or not, they almost certainly have a good reason for not allowing stallions. Im sure there are other boarders around though, surely you can find one who will allow one.
     
  14. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    I think if a stable does not allow stallions that is fair, actually it is good common sense to be safe and no your limits. Better safe than sorry is the old saying. Can't blame someone for that. I have turned a stallion away before because as mentioned I have kids who come and take lessons here so I must put their safety first. I was asked to board one that had been abused and never ever got out of his stall. I just don't have that kind of spare time to deal with those kinds of problems. She ended up selling him for meat and tried to make me feel guilty later well she should have cared for him properly.
     
  15. caseyolee

    caseyolee Border Collies R' Us

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    Mare owners also aren't happy when their mares are in heat 24/7 because there is a stud making funny noises all the time LOL

    Trust me. We boarded a stud here one time.....my mares where in heat the WHOLE time he was here. I had to tell her to get him out because he was disrupting my training and such. He wasn't bad, or destructive, but every time he whinnied, the mares KNEW he was a "boy"

    It was SO annoying.
     
  16. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    My four stallions don't disrupt anything and the mares go through their normal cycle. I think maybe the mares were not trained properly because mares don't usually stay in heat 24/7, unless I was just lucky with mine because none of them do that. I own 12 horses and there are 19 on the property including my 4 stallions.
     
  17. caseyolee

    caseyolee Border Collies R' Us

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    Well, when you figure out how to "train" a mare's heat cycle, you let me know.

    Mares can also have fake heats, which was the case in my barn. Some of the mares it didn't bother, but others were BAD.
     
  18. yuckaduck

    yuckaduck Guest

    Not going to argue but none of the mares in my barn do that. Maybe it is because the stallions are well trained and have excellent manners. We will see now that I have a new boarder because he is a whinnier, and he kicks at his stall door everytime another horse walks by. That I am not use to because my boys don't do that. This boy has some learning to do and I have no doubt he will be much better after sometime is spent with him. Will be interesting to see if any of the mares do as you suggestted with him fussing because they to are not use to that type of behaviour. I can't see a mare not having a false heat I've heard it before so I'm not calling you a liar or anything, just have not YET had that problem here. I do know of a breeding stable here who has seperated barns and houses stallions only in a stallion barn, but they also have masturbation problems with there stallions. Breeding is their business so they do a whole lot more then my 30-40 mares a year and this year I bred 22 mares altogether. So I am not big time and all of those mares were not mine. I did not rebreed any of mine because I have too many foals left from this year and a few yearlings left over from last year. No point in continuing to breed better off to do some training with what I have. Ya my stallions masterbate or hit themselves in the belly but for what I do it makes no difference I have no problems breeding and having the mares catch so I don't fix what ain't broke.
    Of course if the mares here start to become goofy's then there will be some serious training put in on them because they too need to learn good manners just like the new man, and he is lacking them for sure.
     

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