Need help on deciding between Retrievers

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jason

Guest
#81
I re-read through the posts and I'm confused on something. You suggest I buy from a shelter because I'll know what I get, but won't that open me up to other potential problems? How do I know the dog wasn't abused? Assuming I get a healthy puppy, I'm confident my dog will mature to a wonderful pet.

Also, there has been a lot said about breeding and health problems. But isn't it true that Retrievers on the whole are prone to multiple disorders and a high incidence of cancer? A friend of mine just lost his Golden to cancer and it tore me apart to hear him tell me how he put it to sleep.
 

poeluvr

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,905
Likes
0
Points
0
#83
youll just have to check his background if you get one from the pound. My father did this to see if a dog was abused. He would raise his hand to thee dog to look as though he were gonna hit it. Usually dogs who are not abused just go on their happy way and dont flinch, dogs who have been abused we have noticed flinch or whimper
 

poeluvr

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,905
Likes
0
Points
0
#85
LEA said:
youll just have to check his background if you get one from the pound. My father did this to see if a dog was abused. He would raise his hand to thee dog to look as though he were gonna hit it. Usually dogs who are not abused just go on their happy way and dont flinch, dogs who have been abused we have noticed flinch or whimper
i dont know if u missed this it really works.
o good glad i could help i hate writing long things only to find out it wasnt helpful
plus u were kinda gettin picked on and not getting the help you simply asked for, but their just trying to help
 

Fran27

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
10,642
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
45
Location
New Jersey
#86
Jason said:
What would be considered an acceptable ratio of humans to puppies in a respectable breeder? If I do choose to buy from a breeder (likely), this is one of many questions I'll need to ask.
I'm not sure... But for so many litters they would probably need 10+ people just taking care of the pups. I'm not saying the puppies won't be nice dogs there though, it's just that I would personally not like to give money (I assume they ask quite a bit) to people who breed dogs like they would grow flowers (sorry for the comparison but you get the idea). They probably spend all their time in cages until they are sold too :(

And I agree with Elihunter, I also thought that labradoodles were not supposed to be born from other labradoodles, but from a lab and a poodle (I alluded to it in one of my posts). So breeding those mutts to create mutts really irks me.

I agree also with your reserves about shelters - that's why I wouldn't get a dog from a shelter, and I prefer rescues. 90% of the people who abandon a dog lie about the reasons. Half of the dogs abandonned for allergies are in fact abandonned because they were not trained or are agressive. So asking about the background doesn't mean anything. With rescues at least the dog lives with people for a while and they get a good idea of their character before getting them adopted. Or you can do what I did, get a young puppy from a rescue, they get some all the time when people abandon their pregnant dog.

There is nothing wrong though with getting a pure bred puppy. It's a personal choice.
 
J

Jason

Guest
#87
Fran27 said:
And I agree with Elihunter, I also thought that labradoodles were not supposed to be born from other labradoodles, but from a lab and a poodle (I alluded to it in one of my posts). So breeding those mutts to create mutts really irks me.
I just don't understand this. Ok, all dogs are mixed breeds right? For example, the Flat-Coated Retriever was created in England in the 19th Century by mixing a Lab or Newfoundland with and a setter or pointer. In the late 19th Century, the dog was further refined into what we have today.

Doesn't a Labradoodle mirror this? I would submit that a Labradoodle has a sufficiently different genetic structure to warrant it's own classification. You take two Labradoodles and breed them, and what you have is a...Labradoodle! What happens if you breed two Goldens?

Also, I read somewhere that the issue isn't breeding a Labradoodle and a Labradoodle, it's inbreeding two Labradoodles. Just like human inbreeding, canine inbreeding leads to defective genese becoming active as opposed to dormant.
 

Puppy

Bernese Mountain Dog!
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
169
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
UK
#88
retrievers

hi.good luck jason with choosing the right breed. i am also thinking of a lab or a golden.i have more or less everything figured out and researched.i just need to know the amount of 'TIME' needed to walk on the leesh,and run in a park of the leesh.i have read things that say things like 'labs need LOTS of exercise' or 'labs are a very active breed and need to get rid of ALOT of energy.'

Could someone tell me from their personal experiences what your exercise plans are with your lab or golden?
please include what you do,how long for,and any other details.

Thanks.
 

Babyblue5290

Happy Meal. Yum.
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
16,079
Likes
0
Points
0
#89
Sorry to butt in, but I'm a bit confused too......like jason said how do you not breed labradoodle to labradoodle? I mean goldens and almost all other dogs where made by crosing breeds and then breeding the 'mutts' produced together to make a certain type. Isn't this the same as breeding a labradoodle to labradoodle?
But I do get not inbreeding.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
6,125
Likes
0
Points
0
#90
Jason said:
I re-read through the posts and I'm confused on something. You suggest I buy from a shelter because I'll know what I get, but won't that open me up to other potential problems? How do I know the dog wasn't abused? Assuming I get a healthy puppy, I'm confident my dog will mature to a wonderful pet.
The shelter can usually tell you if the dog has had a bad experience previously. Even if a dog has been abused or neglected, it can make a great pet. My lab was abused and neglected, and with a little work she is the greatest dog. She loves kids and other animals, knows her basic commands and a few tricks...she's just an absolute sweetheart. You can get problems with any dog, including breeder dogs. And just as a note...you don't buy a dog from a shelter, you adopt it.
 

Fran27

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
10,642
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
45
Location
New Jersey
#91
Jason said:
I just don't understand this. Ok, all dogs are mixed breeds right? For example, the Flat-Coated Retriever was created in England in the 19th Century by mixing a Lab or Newfoundland with and a setter or pointer. In the late 19th Century, the dog was further refined into what we have today.

Doesn't a Labradoodle mirror this? I would submit that a Labradoodle has a sufficiently different genetic structure to warrant it's own classification. You take two Labradoodles and breed them, and what you have is a...Labradoodle! What happens if you breed two Goldens?

Also, I read somewhere that the issue isn't breeding a Labradoodle and a Labradoodle, it's inbreeding two Labradoodles. Just like human inbreeding, canine inbreeding leads to defective genese becoming active as opposed to dormant.
That's for recognized breeds. As it is, they can just make up whatever standard they want. The labradoodle 'standard' is a first generation mix from a lab and a poodle. So, they don't respect the 'standard', they are just breeding mutts.

Gaddylovesdogs - most shelters have no clue what the past of a dog is. Because owners lie when they give them up.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
132
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Phoenix, AZ
#93
It would be kind of hard to choose between a Labradoodle or a Golden Retriever, I like both of them. It depends, do you want a regular breed or a mixed breed?
 

bridey_01

Kelpiefied
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
760
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Australia
#94
Ok, actual experience with all three breeds.
I am an instructor at a dog club, so I get alot of experience with most breeds, and I can tell you that the most popular breeds at my club are labs and goldens, though we have our fair share of labradoodles! I have two in my puppy class and one in advanced obedience. I have only met one flat coated, and he was lovely, though not the sharpest tool in the shed. My favourite out of these breeds is definetly the labradoodle. They combine the lovely lab temperament and willingness to please with the razor sharp intelligence of the standard poodle (second smartest dog in the world)
They do very well in obediance and pick up commands super fast. There are most definetly good breeders of this breed, as crosses between the lab and poodle are often done by guide dog associations to create guide dogs for people that are dog allergic. Although alot of labradoodles will shed very little, others may shed as much as a "pure" lab, so shedding isn't your main plus here.
I do like goldens, but I have been so over exposed to them as an instructor that I am beginning to become tired of the same old thing. I find labs very excitable and boistrous, though they are smart and happy things. The drawback of owning a labradoodle would be keeping him occupied. That poodle mind will be constantly active in him.
 

EliNHunter

New Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
3,836
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
60
Location
Indianapolis
#95
I don't quite understand why the first cross between a lab and a poodle is the only "real" labradoodle, either. But that's the way it is. Most all breeds came from crosses at one point in time, but it took 100's of years to become a standard. Then came the overbreeding -- and the problems. With popularity and bad breeding processes came the problems -- i.e. goldens prone to cancer, eye and hip problems, etc. I really condone rescue for the same reason (I think Fran) said. The dog has been in foster and has been evaluated already.
 

Fran27

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
10,642
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
45
Location
New Jersey
#96
It's just another site that doesn't keep the labradoodle 'standard'. They even say they sometimes breed them back to poodles, those dogs are much more poodle than labs.

But you're right, It seems people started making up the 'australian labradoodle', by breeding labradoodles and labradoodles. It's not the same dogs, but /shrug.
 

bridey_01

Kelpiefied
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
760
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Australia
#97
I got my kelpie from a shelter, and I would never discourage buying from shelters, but I dicscovered many unknown fears and phobias that she had that I had to work through. These things rarely surface at a fist meeting, and may show themselves months or years after getting the dog. That is why I bought Azlan from a reputable breeder, I know I am starting a fresh slate with him.
 

Fran27

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
10,642
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
45
Location
New Jersey
#98
Exactly... That's why I got two puppies too. I'm planning on having children and just can't take the risk of getting an adult dog that may show behavior problems later on. Although one of the puppies is a rescue and was taken from his mom too early.

I was a volunteer at the ASPCA here for about 2 weeks (before I gave up because it was too hard for me to handle emotionally, and I kinda felt useless in that one too :( ). There is *no way* that they know everything about the dogs they have. They just get people who bring dogs and give any kind of reasons for it - moving, allergies, doesn't get along with the other dogs... I'm sure that 90% of the people who give up their dogs give the same excuses. So they put the dogs in their kennels, and spend 30 minutes with them to judge of their character, and that's it. The dogs are usually so lost they don't even show their normal behavior anyway, and they are totally different dogs once in their new family.

I got totally flamed for saying this in another forum to be honest... But I think there is still a risk that any pound dog will have behavior problems. Mostly because I really don't think that people who give up their dogs because they are moving took the time to train their dog properly, if they can't even take a few more days to find a place that accepts dogs... It's not really a problem if the owners are adults with experience in training dogs, but I can't help worrying when I see families with young children get dogs from the pound...

Rescues are another matter though. Foster families keep en eye on the dog, get to know their characters, so you know what dog you are adopting.

On a side note, if we didn't have the cats, I wish I could be a foster :(
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
6,125
Likes
0
Points
0
#99
Fran27 said:
Gaddylovesdogs - most shelters have no clue what the past of a dog is. Because owners lie when they give them up.
My dogs all had bad pasts, and only one of them is from a shelter. They are now some of the happiest, most well-trained, sweetest dogs out there.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
6,125
Likes
0
Points
0
I believe I have an article on why you cannot breed a doodle with a doodle and get another doodle. I may be able to post it here if I can find it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

No members online now.
Top