Narrowing down..

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by MafiaPrincess, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    So I had the I want a third dog convo with my mom today.. She seems to be okay with it.. She'd rather a cocker.. But she doesn't really know anything else..

    So the list is American cockers, Mini poodles and Chinese cresteds..

    I want the pretty breed standard.. but I want proven performance lines..

    Sadly most are one or the other..

    So cresteds.. The pretty I adore.. Jewel's and the AKC top invitational agility dogs.. which has a still down website CHINAROAD

    American Cockers.. The pretty I love in colours I adore like roan.. but few performance titles and they didn't answer my emails (though they may have gone to spam and have an odd policy of not wanting people on their property I'm a little weird over). Aj Kennels Am Cocker Spaniels Then there's the top invitational dogs.. TellTail

    And Mini poodles.. There's not much to pick from. I sadly like partis, but minis in any colour aren't doing much in performance. There's Songbird and not much else, at least not consistently. The invitational lumps all sizes together and standards dominate the list.. My fave breeder is local and has a sadly defunct line. Gone to the AAC Nationals an done well.. sadly her pick from her last litter was a one balled wonder, and it killed her line..

    I'd like a pup 6-8 months down the road.. she won't have a new girl for years...

    Anyone have kennels to add to my list?
     
  2. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Are you looking just in Ontario? There is a great Mini breeder here. I have house sat her dogs and I love them. They do alot with their Standards. She co breeds and co owns with another lady and most of the mini's live with her, and she's a pro handler, so most of them only see the conformation ring. BUT she would be a great person to talk to about any of her mini's ending up in performance homes. Kandansk Standard & Miniature Poodles The temperament on their dogs is STELLER. Having house sat for them I really can not say enough.

    Type wise (just a PERSONAL preference) I'm not a fan of theses but looks like they do other things besides Conformation Rosebell Kennels

    Although not a performance breeder I do like their dogs New Page 1



    I'm very partial to Parti Cockers myself ;)
     
  3. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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  4. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    None of the breeders on my lists are in Ontario..

    I have a pretty but not drivey enough cocker.. Pretty or not, I'm not jumping on another cocker without serious performance titles.. I also can't do another black cocker. Smudge is too hot. Braewood wouldn't be on the radar, thank you though.

    I like that Kandansk has serious health testing done. I want a proven performance prospect though.. Although any dog can be a crap shoot, I'd like the next one to be set up to succeed better. Nice that Rosebell has a good number of performance titles.. Hadn't heard of them.
     
  5. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    I would email Kandansk and ask them. Talk to Kathy about it. She will be 100% honest with you. I know her Standards are amazing agility dogs. She may have had alot of mini's placed in pet profromance homes. Or she would point you in the right direction of a great breeder.
     
  6. Bigpoodleperson

    Bigpoodleperson Megan and Draco

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    I dont know how far away you are looking for, but someone I know on a poodle forum has a dog from this breeder.

    Home

    He is extremely drivey! He had to go to a performance home, and is doing very well in his "career"! The lady was very pleased with the breeder, and would go back to her again. That is all I know of the breeder, but this dog is fantastic! She does minis and moyen/klien poodles (between a mini and standard).
     
  7. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    That's good to hear Jenn. I'll put them on the list. (Not that I've picked a breed)..

    I'm picky. I find things on breeder sites (not Kandansk) Other breeders that when I start really looking at their info that turn me off.

    I'm not sure I'll ever narrow down a breed let alone a breeder...

    TY Bigpoodleperson. it's nice to hear recommendations. The poodle club was kinda hit and miss with few mini breeders..

    A crestie breeder messaged me. They have a litter that just whelped. Now is the wrong time, but they have performance lines.. know what personalities do better in sports. I thought cocker was the most likely and crestie the least.. but maybe not.
     
  8. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    You're pretty set on these breeds? If not, there are probably suitable breeds for you that you could more easily find what you are looking for than these breeds. What about English Cockers? There seems to be more of them "doing stuff" than American Cockers.
     
  9. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    Pretty set.. I'm not a fan of English cockers. Though they are more rare here than American, and there aren't that many of them doing stuff either. There's all of three English I can think of off hand doing AAC agility.
     
  10. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    Is Melissa Frye with Skyrocket Cockers still breeding? Her dogs are (were? It was years ago that I sort of knew her online) big into agility and she hunted them as well.
     
  11. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    I love her.. She at one point had a balance I adored.. confo dogs (so they were my ideal of pretty) mixed with MACHS and varying hunter levels... PERFECT. Sadly she quit showing and her dogs got that 'fieldy' look I don't like so much..

    I actually looked her up last month just to see what she was doing, her website didn't work.. and her blog hadn't been updated in an age. She lived through a cancer scare not too many years ago. I hope she hasn't had another health issue. I still liked lurking to see what she was up to.
     
  12. Sapphire-Light

    Sapphire-Light woof!

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    Good luck on finding a pup :popcorn:

    The english cockers I have met are very lazy, almost at the levels of basset hounds ;) but all the ones I have met are all BYB.

    Poodles sounds like a good idea for that work, Pompadour loves to run and bounce, but since he is a toy he gets tired fast, toys appear to be more aware of how they fragile they are and don't like to play too rough.

    He has low energy and then he has the runny playfull moments, for what I read in a poodle forum, minis are more active.
     
  13. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    Some English Cockers:

    This one is a 3rd generation MACH - not too bad!
    MACH SPEEDY(8-13).mp4 - YouTube

    And a MACH4
    MACH SPEEDY(8-13).mp4 - YouTube

    This is a nice run at the Invitational:
    birdieinv2009r1.MP4 - YouTube

    Little Poodles can do well too :)

    Abby the 8" Toy Poodle Does Agility Jan. 1& 2, 2011 - YouTube

    Phoebe 5 yps! Colonial Sheltie Club, Rhode Island July 2011 - YouTube

    And this reminds me...a good place to ask about breeders of these breeds is probably the Mighty Mites forum. I know for sure there's a few Poodle people and Crested people. It's a bit slow moving but your bound to get some feedback.
     
  14. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    Mightymites is pretty dead these days. I did ask. I was given info that mini poos dominate in the rankings for poodles.. but somehow the way invitational points are added up, it seems the list is heavy in standards. Also a crestie breeder contacted me..

    Looks like it'll be another ACS. Delving into another breed with a lack of knowledge of where to go is hard. I asked on the yahoo group for agility cockers and have 8-10 suggestions, including a few breeders who I've had my eye on who emailed me including Telltale cockers from up above with some of the top ranked cockers.

    Unfortunately, I think people could find youtube videos backing up any breed's drive in agility.. but it doesn't make it the norm. I've seen some good and bad of many breeds. I've even seen some non drivey tollers from decent lines..

    I want a better competitor though.. and want to be really really picky this time though there are no guarantees. I have to graduate to be able to seriously commit though.
     
  15. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I didn't think those dogs showed any special degree of drive, just that they were trainable for agility, successful and having fun. There are dogs of most breeds doing agility and within every breed there are varying degrees of drive and trainability for dog sports. My post was mostly at the implication that English Cockers were too lazy for agility and Toy Poodles too fragile. Your best bet for a performance dog is to pick a breed and puppy you like, train it to the best of your ability, have reasonable expectations and...have fun!

    "You can’t buy good agility dog. But you can train it. Of course, you can’t win WC with a Samoyed. But if winning WC is your goal, you probably won’t win it anyway." Silvia Trkman
     
  16. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Depends on what your definition of a good agility dog is... Maf already has a smokin fast reliable dog (Cider).. you can't train that sort of drive. You can help develop it, but you can't make it if its not there...

    AAC courses are technical and fast. I know many 'good' agility dogs who don't make time often once they hit masters.
     
  17. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I have known people with some pretty outstanding, competitive dogs who would argue with that. I don't think you can buy a "smokin' fast reliable dog" necessarily but a lot of people sure do try. You can buy a puppy with potential but that's never a guarantee. And plenty of people have stuck with dogs who most would have considered "wash outs" to develop an truly awesome performance dog.
     
  18. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Well we will have to agree to disagree. I think you can buy or breed fast dogs. This is the point of breeding programs after all. (If you are breeding for any particular talent...) Yes some dogs can be trained to be faster.. but its usually a non confident dog finding confidence. Some dogs just dont' care to run their legs off.

    If you buy from a breeder that consistently produces excellent high drive dogs chances are you will be buying a smokin fast dog. (reliable depends on training, but also on genetics) No guarantees but a much better chance than someone who just buys a pretty dog and hopes for the best.
     
  19. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    We bought a smokin fast reliable dog. ;-)

    Mafia, I have no real help in those breeds but wish you the best of luck!
     
  20. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    I have a competitive dog. We are 4 Qs to an ATChC. Once you have that level of success, I can't say having less is as much fun. Why? Because I'm there now with Smudge. He is not as fast. We have trained, short fun and sweet.. and while he wants to play, his legs don't move faster.

    As Dekka said. AAC is fast. A fixable minor bobble and some days Cider doesn't make time.. Smudge is not not making time. Some days he can, especially jumpers even in masters.. advanced standard.. there's no prayer. I love him, but consistently too slow for time looses it's appeal.

    Cider came out of the box higher drive, harder to live with. Smudge has drive, but less and less confidence even with work.

    I'd say part is your venue of choice. Our (Dekka and mine) venue is fast, and twisty on average. I know there are no guarantees, but ?I plan to stack the deck for success. I love Smudge, he chooses to share my bed nightly and Cider does not. Consistently slow with a lack of drive is not something that likely will blossom into something highly competitive. It may, but the likelihood is low.

    Having started to look in a different circle of dog people.. there are cocker lines out there breeding successful performance dogs with higher drive. I'd agree there are breeding programs breeding the talent. Sure, you could have a dud... but I want the higher chance of success. I have the pretty dog I thought would be okay. Sadly the deck wasn't stacked well enough for success, so I'm putting in more effort now, not that I won't play with Smudge.. but it's less rewarding.

    Thank you. Was the line heavy in smoking fast and reliability? I have a decent cocker list of breeders now. I just wish I'd graduated already and could be making real plans.
     

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