Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Gallien Jacks, Aug 1, 2005.
Anyone remember "him"??? I don't get you, MC.... what do you MEAN?
Manchesters, did you know Grammy's (Bubbatd) line? I don't understand.
The gorgeous Golden who was being shown maybe 4 years ago. He was the top Golden of that time period. He was perfection in conformation, movement, coat......one of those dogs that just makes you heart tighten into a knot when you see him in motion.
Of course I cannot remember the kennel name, rofl. My great memory....NOT...!
I didn't. I would die to see a pedigree. I am a pedigree nut=butt!
The dog I was talking about was one of the most magnificient Goldens to walk the planet. Pretty close to perfection from what I heard. I like nice naked dogs, rofl. No muss no fuss, no hair to vacuum up!
You mean top in AKC standards? They tend to be very blond and very squat. The Hawthorn Hill line was more of a large, lean, red field version of a golden...
Well, top winning conformation Golden. Don't know if he had any field titles. Now THOSE titles you have to respect. They are earned....not just based on the opinon of some judge who never saw a good looking speciman of the breed!
My vet in New York breed Goldens which did much winning......Her name was Irene Kraft, and again I cannot remember her kennel name...something like Golden Winds or ????????
Thing is that for every breed, there is only one standard of the ideal. Few dogs of any breed that ever come close to any of those standards any more, sadly.
Manchester , I'm not going your way . You may be thinking of the Meadowpound line ...Bubba was grandson of CH.Murphy's Rainbow ...sweetie, if you'd feel better , I can take you back to the Speedwell, Rockhaven, Stillrovin, Lorelei lines or yore from which my goldens have come from, but you're probably too young to remember these lines. And yes , I do admire all titles.... Max McCammon was the 1st in the nation to acquire all 3 into the golden hall of fame with his dog Merrymac's Dream of Genie...my Roxie's Dam. Like to know more ???
No, I cannot use young as an excuse, lol. I know NONE of the Golden lines. People tend to only zero in on those breeds that they are addicted to. And considering the amount of work that goes into learning the lines and dogs when you move from one breed to another, it is almost a college course!
I like to examine pedigrees to see what manner of breeding was done....linebreeding, how much outcrossing and so on. Many years ago a gentleman by the name of Walter Fletcher formulted the perfect breeding formula (looks confusing but it isnt really)----Let the sire of the sire be the grandsire of the dam on the dams side. I THINK it comes out to uncle neice breeding??? I am too pooped to be able to try to visualize it in my head.
I have links to the pedigrees of my dogs on my site. They are kinda scattered all over, under the pictures and such.
Many people get disgusted with showing in conformation because it is nothing but political, and who owes who what, and who is whose boyfriend, etc. For most breeds, Championships really are not to be trusted as a sign of the quality of the dog. Even with the champions I bred, I can see much to be desired in layback of shoulder, and rear angulation (WHAT rear angulation!!) Manchesters are supposed to have reach and drive, as opposed to "terrier movement" where the legs do not extend out from under the body. Manchester movement in both varieties stinks!!!!!! Because of the straight shoulders and straight rears!
It is a joy to talk breeding with breeders! I am a genetic enthusiast also, but mainly as far as coat color. I was really proud of myself when I finally was able to comprehend the Dobe color chart!!!! Then the white Dobe came along, rofl. But I think that is a simple recessive.
Have a good night.......I am poopsilated.
I have noticed alot of cross breeding back in the 40s and 50s....( Goldens ). I've always been an pedigree nut .... tried to stay away from the lines I knew that had cancer problems. Unfortunately with my I.B. I only had her 3 generation when I bought her. When I got her full pedigree I saw a red flag....unfortunatley , I was right.
have she already had her puppies?
Bubbatd, i also think a rail is important, how anyone can think they are not seems strange, how could you not fit something as simple as this and, then a pup or more dies, I just dont get some people, yep the cage is metal, I did think aboyt getting some pieces of dowling and cutting a slit in the end so they push on the the bars but I will leave this up tp hubby as I'm not very good with a saw lol
Candy, if the question was for me know she hasnt had them yet they are due on the 18th
Used A Crib
I had of course always used a rail with the Dobes and Whippets, but with the Manchesters it isn't really necessary. Manchester moms have heart failure if one of their pups make a sound. Plus I was here 24/6, and if I had to run to Walmart I would put momma in a crate by herself. For some reason the mothers always seemed to apprecate time away from the kids. Of course I didn't go anywhere until the pups were at least two weeks old.
And being able to use just a crib was sooooo nice as far as the space it took up. It was a small crib a friend had made for her dogs and gave me.
I miss the joy involved with raising pups, but I will get over it, rofl.
I miss it so too, Manchester !!! Such a rewarding experience.
if you go back and look at Moe's pics of his huskies, you will see the sweetest whelping box i have ever seen. If i have time i will try to find the link. We always had a rail all the way around..and Manchester, if you want to see what some careful breeding did you should see the accomplishments of my old boss. He had a kennel that began in 1935. Ran the circuit with his labradors taking the nationals with two siblings Nip and Tuck. I have a card here for the dog that was the number one search and seizure dog for nebraska, PowerPete...i was in his whelping box..my job was to midwife from the day the pups and then to care for them including the process of sales. He bred for intelligence and ability. This wasn't confirmation..it was field trial. I will find the card in my documents and come back and post. I worked at this kennel for 20 years. Grew up assisting three litters a year, and training the rest of the time as well as cleaning and caring for 40 kennels. We did field trials every spring and fall, training the rest of the year daily.
I forgot to add we also had a special kennel for the mum when her pups wer old enuff to go out. It had heat lamps in it with a special drop floor so no stool be drug in and had a shelf where mum could get away from the pups about three feet high and get a well needed break.
here is Power Pete..when old boss had alzhiemers and I could no longer ensure his safety at the kennel we had to shut down. these people came and took not only our breeding stock, but our old retirees as well.
double post put i wanted to add these..here was our whelping box not near as gorgous as moe's but very functional..and our training pond..one side was low and shallow to start 8 week old pups on tiny little retreives, and the other deep enuff for a dramatic splash to build confidence. the kennel sat on five acres and was set up for every imaginable beginning trainer problem
14 pups in this litter..BB always had big litters and we almost always had 100 percent healthy survival. we kept two bins to the side where i would scoop out the newborns and set them under the heat lamp so mum had room to turn around, then i could clean her up replace papers and get the pups back to nursing to heed the next contractions..these big litters make mum very tired..i read in a book what to do until the vet comes and it said coffee for dogs and tea for cats..so when i saw mum was tired out too tired to push i made her a cuppa and it was never refused..worked like a charm..
What about at night time, you cant of been with them then!
Ya wanna bet, rofl?? I have to sleep in my recliner chair because of sqwished disks in my back. The crib was about 5 feet from my chair. I sleep at really weird intervals (diabetic...tinkle every hour!) and heard just about every breath they took. And I have Toy Manchesters---ETTs. The momma weighed about 11 pounds.
I sure envy you the joy of raising those pups. I have tons of VHS tape of puppy fights, puppies romping thru their fresh shredded paper--just like human kids hurling themselves thru snow banks.
It gives us a whole new appreciation of life to see everything thru the eyes of baby puppies. Everything is a wonder and a miracle to them.
Only bad part is the weaning, rofl. Messy, messy, messy. (See my website for pictures, rofl.)
Your little b!tch is a pretty little thing. The puppies should be beautiful.
I sure hope you can get more sleep than I ever was with pups! I have not bred for 7 years, so I have had time to recuperate, roflmbo! And it took just about that long to get rested up from it, heheheheh!
I think I maybe should get that book - " How To Raise A Puppy You Can Live With " . It sounds like a good book. I am a fairly new dog breeder so it sounds like a book I should read.
Good for you !!!! You won't be sorry...they're really cheap used at Amazon. It's also good for the prospective owners....you can copy and give them the pages that helps them pick out the right puppy for them. I used it to test the pups too , to see which ones needed extra attention as to shyness, bullying etc etc. Post here if you agree of it's worth.
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