My Adel gave birth to 10 puppies

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by ufimych, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. babymomma

    babymomma Remembering Casey ♥

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    I think somebody with dekkas knowlegde would have to pass on that offer.


    I would take my $700 and go to a REPUTABLE breeder thank you very much.


    Have a good day sir! Dont forget to deny your dogs a warm home to sleep in and a vet to keep them healthy! Im sure they are happier Outside in a pen with a cold hard doghouse or chained up with a cold hard doghouse. Deealing with the discomfort of raising a Large litter.

    Maybe if yuour former dogs had a vet they could have lived even longer then 11-17 years.
     
  2. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    as a wildlife rehabber i cna honsetly say comparing your dogs births to that of "wild dogs" and how thats the "best way" and "natural" is like saying "oh and i dont care about the death rate.
    average wolf litters are 3 pups, they are lucky is 2 of those 3 survive their first winter.
    foxes again average litter is only 2 pups, if one leaves the den thats considered "great"
    coyotes will generlaly have 3 pups and again if 2 survive their first winter thats considered wonderfull...
    comparing this "natural" outdoor mommy raises the pups with no intervention thing is..to me...is like saying "i dont care if the pups get fleas, ticks, ant bites, damp, chilled...ect..."

    saying the natural way is the best way, is NOT the best way to go about things when the survival rate of young wild canines is low on a good day.

    theres no mention of health testing...and since these dogs NEVER go to a vet its obvious they havent been tested (and yes, even "aborigional dogs" primitve breeds ect should get at least the bare minimum of testing even if these salukies came form the purest of the origional lines...)
    and you just pain said your dogs rarely catch...so im guessing no feild trials ect...nothing to say your sighthounds are better than joe blows sighthounds down the road.

    then to offer to sell one to someone halfway round the world who youve never met...
    the homes lined up for these pups are actually just some friends and people that came forward?

    this is a very none chalaunt attitude towards breeding and while things are done different in different countries (and im all for a good hunting kennel breeding correctly), and mabe theres a language barrier thats making things seem terrible, but seriously, in every country ive been to (and thats alot) this entire set up woudl be a BYB.

    in their prime days saluki (along with afghan and other sighhounds were considered HIGH value, they would share their masters tents, puppies would have been born under the cover of the tent, they would have been fed prime meat, they would have been too highly valuable to EVER let a hunting saluki birth in the dirt outside.

    any dog can have puppies in a wooden box, or in the dirt...doesnt mean its the best for the dog or her puppies...
     
  3. freedomwolf

    freedomwolf New Member

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    What technically "aboriginal" dogs? Also, what is/are rustic dogs and what is a Saluki? And what are fru fru dogs?
     
  4. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    aboriginal means native, or naturally occurring, don't know what rustic is. A saluki is an ancient sight hound breed.
     
  5. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    "fru fru" in this case would probably mean spoiled, 'wimpy' dogs in my assumption, as in a working breed that has no instinct or ability. Many people feel that house pets that do not work are 'fru fru'. (The word is actually 'frou frou' though ... might be easier to find that way):


    frou·frou
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈfrü-(ˌ)frü\
    Function:
    noun
    Etymology:
    French, of imitative origin
    Date:
    1870

    1 : a rustling especially of a woman's skirts
    2 : showy or frilly ornamentation
     
  6. drmom777

    drmom777 Bloody but Unbowed

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    When I was a child my parents (roving nature photographers) once visited an acquaintance who bred Salukis and Appaloosas out west somewhere. I remember the beauty of the dogs, feeling squeamish when hearing that they ran down prey and killed it on a regular basis, and the absolutely adorable litter of puppies gated in the kitchen with their black and tan mother. A memorable experience all around, but one that leads me to believe that even working "aboriginal" dogs are bred and raised indoors.
     
  7. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    I can see where the OP might be coming from, but weren't Salukis treated like royalty and slept in the tents with their masters and such, even in the desert?

    Foxes and coyotes have a poor survival rate, mostly due to poor nutrition. These dogs at least have someone feeding them regularly and vaccinating. It's not ideal conditions, especially for those of us who don't have strictly hunting dogs, but that mother looks in great condition, especially considering she just had 10 pups.
     
  8. PoodleMommy

    PoodleMommy Yorkie Love

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    kinda funny... we have been accused of having ornaments before... so your probably right on the definition of "frou-frou"!:rofl1:
     
  9. tessa_s212

    tessa_s212 Guest

    You're wasting your money on vaccines. OTC vaccines are often ineffective due to improper handling. Please have your dogs seen by a vet. Denying them veterinary care isn't natural, it is neglect.
     
  10. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    SaltyWench, all those writings about several breeds of aboriginal origin are put together to create a glamorous aura for the breed, a sales pitch tehcnique. People rewriting this nonsence again and again from each other and readers believe it. Saluki and Tazy are "clean" dog to a Muslim. This is true, this is why he separates them the other "bad and dirty" dogs. In fact, Saluki and Tazi like to roll over stinky matter found on the steppe grass or on the sand, just like all other natural dogs. Bassengy is "clean like a cat". In fact, it is rolling over allkind of stinky carrion and even used motor oil! Name Pharaoh Hound is invented by British gentry. In fact this is a rabbit catching dog of Malta and Pharaohs have a dubious connection with it. Of course, rich Shekhs kept them in their rich tents. However, Saluki type dogs are distributed from NW Africa, across Middel East, Crimea, Caucasus and to Central Asia. In a tent of poor Bedouin, you would be horrified how hot it is in those tents under desert sun. Poor Arabs ate not a fancy food and, when they had enough, they fed the same to their dogs. How about one pitta bred a day? Dog were supplementing their diet by catching groundsquirrels and jerboas. Veterinary service have never been available, there were no "testings", except one: the dog had to catch hares. I have a few articles written by people who know of aboriginal breed through their own, first hand experience. E-mail me in private and I will send them to you as e-mail attachments.
     
  11. ufimych

    ufimych New Member

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    If I am a reputable breeder, or not, let others decide. I money back guaranteed genetic health of puppies I sold and always kept in touch with their new owners, because I wanted to know about their working performance. I also money back guarantee genetic health of my Saluki puppies. You can easily find statistic on dog's longevity in Internet. You will see that they live about 8-10 years average and all of them have lived their lives under intensive veterinary supervision! Even during those 8-10 years of life, many of them had surgeries, helping to extend their lives for a few years.
     
  12. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    I am going to be interested in learning more about your dogs, since my Fila bitch is a hard, working line dog.

    I don't see her ever living outdoors or consenting to sleep in a wooden box, lol. She's far too enamored of my 18" deep latex mattress and those high thread count sheets :eek: Plus I don't think I could stand to have her away from my side :) But the Fila is of a different temperament than the Saluki.
     
  13. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    rustic means the dogs prefer a rough existence over the pampered existence most pets have. for example my salukiX goes nuts in the house and insists on being outdoors regardless of weather. he prefers a run through the woods chasing critters to a pleasant walk. he prefers the battle w/ a fox or coon over a romp in the dog park. this is contrary to most dogs' nature (most creatures' for that matter), as most will gladly take a life of ease & plenty over one of hardship & privation.
    rustic breeds grow up in rough conditions which weed out the weak in a similar manner to natural selection. this produces a dog w/ minimal health issues even when inbred. most rustic breeds develop problems quickly once they become popular as pets, companions & showdogs because the natural pressures are removed and breeding tends to be biased toward a single facet or only a few. this often allows dogs w/ less than obvious defects to become prominent in the gene pool, especially if the gene pool is made smaller by a rigid closed stud book that represents a small segment of the original population. further breeding causes the problem to become more pronounced. this is why BYBs are so dangerous to a breed & why people w/ working breeds sometimes fight recognition by major registries.
    foxes, coyote & wolf nutrition, fecundity & recruitment (percentage of pups born that survive to become a breeding adult) is cyclical w/ their primary prey base & predation pressures. Foxy's example is 180 degree out from most of the USA as it showed low fecundity & high recruitment. most canids have large litters and low survival. rustic living mimics this but adds the pressure of human selection on breeding for a specific performance factor.

    tessa
    OTC shots are only as good as the shop you get them from. but if a shop doesn't handle them correctly word gets around as people start loosing dogs. so if a shop has been around for a long period & carries the shots for a long time they are most likely handling them correctly. remember hunting dogs are intentionally exposed to unvaccinated wildlife as much as possible so if the shots are bad you'll find out quick.

    ufymich
    my hunting grounds are worse than that, coastal swamp so thick it takes an hour to chop 100 meters. but i still find the patches of open ground to run my boy on. it's good that you keep up w/ the other dogs you've produced to help guide the breeding, but i personally feel that it's the breeding stock that needs to be worked the hardest. i appreciate the offer but i have no interest in a pure tazi type dog at this time. my next sighthounds will be whippet, stag, & coldblood grey (will consider a rustic hotblood).
     
  14. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    pops...not sure where your getting your stats from on wild canid birth and mortality rates...
    because mine are form the usda directly, im a vector species, canid specialist rehabber, (primary focus on coyotes and foxes, though i have handled wolves (and been lucky enough to work with both sub species of hyena, african wild dog, and many more)

    Zoom, unfortunatly the absolute BIGGEST threat to wild canid litters is actually FLEAS! followed closely by tick and mosquitoe born illnesses and internal parisites.
    Predators are also a risk to young litters...
    nutrition and vacination issues are actully not that high on the list, parvo isnt common in wild canine litters in the northeast at least...and distemper is, while more common than parvo, still not the most common cause of death.

    kind of sad realy that a tiny little parisite like fleas can whipe out an entire litter in less than a week...though west nile is also becomming a frequent cause of mass litter death in this area.
     
  15. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    Especially if YOU are making money off of it.

    To be blunt, it sounds like a breeder is trying to minimize care and expenses in order to maximize profits.

    I wouldn't buy a pup even with someone else's money.
     
  16. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    im with you mik on this one...
    $700 for a dog with no veterinary history form parents with no health testing? i want to know what that money is covering?! unless each pup is eating $700 worth of food in 8-10 weeks?
    cause vacines doen by the breeder (even when from a high quality source work out super cheap)
     
  17. babymomma

    babymomma Remembering Casey ♥

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    Not only that foxy, but with a breederr that is in it for the money, they will probably be sold at 4-5 weeks. Barely weaned, so they wont eat much in the way of food.
     
  18. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    Jumping to conclusions much?
     
  19. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    It seems that with hunting/working lines with *some* breeds not health testing seems to be common. Many of the "working" coon hound/cur breeders in this area don't health test. They breed healthy, skilled hunting dogs to other healthy, skilled hunting dogs.
     
  20. LauraLeigh

    LauraLeigh New Member

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    This is what we did in NS when we were working hounds, working to working, esp. if Jack's male had an awesome bay, but was too fast, and Jill's female was a tad slow, and had too soft a bay.... They'd be bred.

    We never tested for genetic issues, had never even heard of it.... and most of these hounds lives to a ripe old age... Jeff's Lady was 19...

    I am intrigued by this thread and hope the OP sticks, I find the methods and reasons interesting, and would love to learn more. I also believe that the *need* to be inside a home is a human one... I have owned 2 working dogs who HATED the house, and would pace and pant when inside and both were raised in a house.

    I am not about to say that what you charge for a pup should be soley based on what you spend.... There are breeders out there selling Papered Chi's for multiple thousands of dollars, hard to justify that.... I personally would never charge more for a pup than I'd be comfy paying myself... even if it was at a loss... I have talked with countless JQ public dog lovers, and when we got around to breeding and pups many, many say they simply cannot justify thousands for a companion pet, and right or wrong thats what drives many to byb....
     

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