More Problems!!

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Apollonaro, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    Well, The seperation thing hasn't gotten worse. I remember being told here, and other places to buy a toy and stick treats inside of it being a way to distract the dog from the fact that we're leaving. Ther's one problem, Apollo doesn't like dog treats. you have to be there and go "Good boy here you go" and give him one or he won't take it!! As for human food, he'll only eat it if it's right infront of his face, if he's got to put up effort to get it he won't he'll just snort all over it. Managed to leave him for about an hour tonight to go downtown to the hospital. But i guess he whined continuously the whole time nad i had a wet surprise downstairs ALL OVER MY FURNITURE when i came home, now... A concrete wall, is one thing.... A wooden door that's going to the dump is another thing... but when you pee on the furniture, that's just a big no-no!!!
    What am i goign to do this seperation thing is driving me bonkers. How do you cure a dog of seperation anxiety if there's nothing u can do to distract him.
    We don't make a big scene of it when we leave we just said "Well be back" and walk out ad when we walk in when he calms down and we're done setlling in we'll give him a couple patts on the back and say "good boy" and whatnot. But the whining, and the barking, and the peeing and it's like a zoo in here
     
  2. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Have you tried the Kong with peanut butter?

    As much as I HATE medication, you may have to talk to your vet and see if there is a mild tranquilizer he could have on a temporary basis to calm him down enough to get used to the idea that nothing bad happens when you leave and that you always come back.

    Of course, before taking that drastic a step, I'd suggest a few nose to snoot talks. Yes, I'm nuts, and yep, it actually works more often than not. Sometimes you have to repeat it a few times, and even have a little reminder chat, but stranger things happen every day.
     
  3. ChiliBeans

    ChiliBeans New Member

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    LOL...I do that with Chili...those "nose to snout talks." When I leave for work I always say, "I'll be back, Mommy's going to work." I figure that if I repeat it enough she'll get used to the times when I have to leave for six to eight hours at the time. Most times when I talk to her I make a point to hold her at eye level and look right in her eyes.
     
  4. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    We showed him a kong at the pet store and one of my good friends works there and stuffed treats in it just to see what he would do (They didn't have peanut butter at the petstore :D) We even put in his fave treat, Marrow bones, and he smelled it and ran away.
    As for nose to snoot talks, ALL THE TIME hun... ALL the time. And he just looks at me, then when i say "Do you understand?" He looks at me then looks to the left, and then to the right and then licks me......Would a doctor prescribed medication stop the chewing, peeing, barking and whining as well? Makes me REALLY wonder what that poor dog went through to make him this way.
     
  5. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    It's not so much to stop the behaviour, as it is to let him be calm long enough to learn that nothing terrible happens when he's alone. A great deal of separation anxiety is, I believe, parallel to what are called panic attacks in humans, and Apollo's sound severe. When the panic abates and he starts learning that alone is okay, the destructive, noisy behaviour should start disappearing as well. You'll still have to work with him, but the point is to calm him down enough for it to get through.

    By the way, just use peanut butter you get at the grocery store. Creamy or crunchy works equally well; you can even mix a little honey in with it if he has a sweet tooth - just remember, that's a LITTLE honey. You don't want him on a sugar high! ;)
     
  6. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    ...I wonder if he'd like crunchy peanut butter... we have some upstairs, perhaps i should see if he likes it by putting some on a spoon first before i spend 20-30 dollars on a kong and shove it full of the stuff and have him ignore it.
    IT's strange actually becuase i do'nt like to be alone either, i always either listen to music really loud, play on the computer with music really loud... But dogs can't do that :(
    It's just so frustrating.....When he whines when he is alone it's like a high pitched squeal it's scary!!!
     
  7. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    I should have thought of this sooner! Try the Bach's Flower Remedies. I'll have to find the link, unless Serena picks up this thread and remembers the link first. That really could be the missing part of this equation.
     
  8. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    Have you gotten that crate yet? :D
    Oh I don't remember the link, but Bach's Flower Remedies are great, they helped Shiner a lot with her SA.

    Apollonaro, Shiner had HORRIBLE SA. She destroyed our screen doors, our draperies, our leather chair and ottoman, and broke through my glass door when she was left alone. (I'm not sure if all of that was due to SA or due to the fact that there were strangers in the yard, that she wanted to kill)
    Anyway, after a lot of training and a little bit of crating when we were gone, Shiner completely overcame her SA.. And I don't think Apollo could be much worse than Shiner was.. So he, too can overcome this. It'll just take a lot of patience, the right mindset and sometimes the right tools to help you. :)
    I don't know if Apollo will ever be reliable enough to leave loose in the house when you leave, and you might have to put him in his crate whenever you leave for very long, but it isn't that much of a hassle and once he is reliable in the crate, you can buy a bigger one. (Which is what I do.. Dakota needs a crate about 25x30" and he has one that's 42x35".. Ripley has one that is the size Dakota would normally need. I like to give them a lot of extra space in their crate, if they can be trusted not to pee or poop in there.

    Also. Ripley never touches his kong until he is left alone in his crate, but it's always empty after I get back..

    An alternative to peanut butter that I use are the Natural Balance dog food rolls. It smells like summer sausage, most dogs love it, and you can pack it into a kong easily, since it's pretty soft and moist. It's kind of pricey, but well worth it.
     
  9. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    Wow Rip's girl, sounds like you had it reallll hard, and i thought Apollo's problem was Frustrating!!!
    What exactly do the flower remedies do? And how much do they cost
     
  10. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    UPDATE:
    Finally bought crate, it's rather nice. It was a retail of 189.99 ad we got it for 89.99... Gotta love sales :) It's wire, is that better than metal or no? it's easily collapsable and even has a handle to carry it around when ur travelling with it! Now i just have ONE problem to overcome - WHINING lol Loud, High pitched, Frightful whining. SOunds like he got his paw cut off or something and whe u go down he just sits there and wags his tail. When we come home nad let him out now, i say "hi" and everything but i won't pet him until he stops bouncing around. i figure that, that way he'll get the impression that he is getting praised for being CALM rather than getting praised for jumping 3 feet in the air at your face to lick you lol
     
  11. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    LOL yes, whining.. Try getting him nice and tired out before you crate him, and have a nice soft bed for him in there that you don't mind him shredding to bits. (So, old towels or old clothes.)

    Some information on the flower remedies:
    http://store.yahoo.com/herbal-remedies-usa/bacflowremfo.html
     
  12. Freddie's mum

    Freddie's mum New Member

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    Dog pheremones

    I havent tried this but my daughter is a veterinary nurse and in the kennels they use a plug in thing which gives off dog pheremones. She says it really works and calms down the anxious dogs. I have seen the plug in and also a spray advertised on-line. You could spray your dog's crate before leaving him. Has anyone else tried the pheremone spray? Good luck. x
     
  13. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Apollonaro, it sounds like you've got the right idea about homecoming festivities. Keep up the good work; it'll pay off.

    I've not heard about the pheromones. It makes sense, but I would be wary of anything that plugs into the wall outlet and contains any kind of oil. Fire hazard. Those plug in scent thingys give me the willies! All it takes for a tragedy is for the oil to get too hot once, and you've got the perfect accelerant for a big, hot fire.
     
  14. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    Well, Another DISASTER.... We try and get him tired out, we take him outside and vigorously play with him, let him run around before bringnig him in. even when we're in a rush like we were this morning. and put him in there, we have to muzzle him becuase he barks, i've tried to leave him without it but it just...doesn't work. Mom's had enough, she's telling me to find him another home ive been crying constantly i hate this shit. I try and scold him when he does something bad and steve praises him it's like cross training and i've told him to cut it out. when we put the dog in this morning i said "No Noise apollo, NO NOISE" really sternly and said "Be a good boy, we'll be back but i don't want to hear ANY noise" And i guess he whiend the whole time, my mom hates to babysit him and he doesn't even stop whining when she's around. Steve nor i can leave the house without him going ballistic. we've spent nearly 300 dollars in stuff to try and calm him down, relax him, train him, coax him, nothng works!!!!!!!! I'm Super pissed off (pardon my language) at the Humane Society for not giving us a proper warning on the case, i would have looked for a dog more suitable without anxiety problems, and let someone else who DOESN"T have a life to stay home and watch him 24 hours a day. I have to go out, I have to have a job, I need friends at this age it's jut not working, nothing's working it won't stop.....Steve said i was using punishment before putting him in th ecrate, im not sure how a stern "no Noise" Is considered punishment. we're bound to him for a year becuase of the adoption... we can't legally sell him, and if i just have to give him away to a familiy member for like.... nothing in return, that's alot of money that disaspeared. I kick myself in the face for not taking the puppy.........
     
  15. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    Do you have neighbors close by that are home all day and are bothered by the whining? If not, leave him in there. He will stop as soon as you stop letting him out when he's whining, but it might take a couple of weeks for him to be consistent.

    Keep trying.. You've only had the crate for a couple of days. NO dog will be crate trained in a couple of days. I know how you feel, it's discouraging, but just keep that in mind, that the crate is a training TOOL. It doesn't train the dog on its own. :)
     
  16. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    It's not that, my mom's got anxiety disorders and it drives her up the wall, when we leave apollo squeals a high pitched squeal and no matter how much they pet him or talk to him he never stops and when they are alseep and he's in the crate, he still whines. Our walls are VERY thin and our neighbours hate us for reasons i do not know. The basement walls are concrete though, so sound doesn't go through them as easy and that's where the crate is

    We did what you said today actually when i found out my mom wanted me to get rid of him and was insisting i did it as soon as possible i refused to let him out of the crate until he was quiet for atleast 10 minutes. It tok about 2 hours after we were home to get him to stop whining. WE dis-aknowledged the fact he was crying and went on ignoring it until he stopped. Was that the right thing to do?
     
  17. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    YES that is the right thing to do! :) As you can see, he DID stop. When he finally stops, (it takes a while but he will stop eventually) wait until he's quiet for 10 minutes or so and then let him out or give him a toy.

    even if it is you storming in there to tell him to be quiet, squirting him with a spray bottle, etc.. He's getting what he wants : your attention. When you pay attention to him only when he is quiet, he will eventually make that connection.
     
  18. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    I guess it was a mistake adopting a dog that was so much like me .... Stubborn!
    I'm doing research as we speak about other possible ways to cure Anxiety. That is if this method fails to work, I am considering obedience classes although he listens to me quite well. I had to buy him a little "PULI" or whatever it's called so that he stopped yanking steve around, im then Alpha-Female :) That's one upside, it's just really hard with mom on my butt about it. I told her "You get rid of my dog for seperation anxiety and i'll get rid of your cats for causing me and steve's allergies to act up. It wouldn't be fun to lose your cats now would it" i know it ws sort of sossy and rude, but i felt like i needed to stand up and say something. U can't just take someone's best friend away i wanna work through this so at the end i can say "yes, i did it and im proud"
     
  19. bogolove

    bogolove New Member

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    LOL! I do the same thing. I say "Mommy's leaving" like 4 times, to both the cat and the dog. I give our cat a piece of ice to bat around and I give Brady a peanut butter treat to indulge on and then I am off. ;)
     
  20. Apollonaro

    Apollonaro New Member

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    I read about those "Nose to snout" talks, and what i read was that i should use a positive comment and give him a reason that he has to stay home. and say something that includes hsi name and the example was "Take care of the house apollo, okay?" and it's supposed to sound i guess like a mission so that the dogk nows he is in charge of waht happens at the house? I don't know, it seems to work, it worked last night anyhow.
     

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