Mixing Dog Foods

[showpug]

Well it's more subtle than that Bob. Obviously I am not an NB "un" fan, but we have to remember I have a puppy here not an adult dog. For starters, I am not thrilled with the protein level. Now i know you think a few percent doesn't matter, but I think it can for puppies.

I have to admit I got hooked by the almost carnival way DVP sells his food. I see nothing detrimental in it by comparison to other foods, but I do have a problem with "all breed" food for my puppy to begin with. Maybe it's pyschological. So in my mind, the foods that have the most "Chops" right now tend to make me think they are the best for her. By "Chops" I mean the foods the greatest number of hard core dog people feed.

Ok The truth is: Tosca looks Great! Her coat is beautiful (as do Smokey's and Hudson's). I have to give at least half that credit to NB as half her food is NB. But Tosca is a kid and I am just maybe a little too paranoid about the food that is best for her and sometimes wonder if I am doing right by her by not using that food which the most people find the greatest result with puppies.

I am also an Eagle Pack fan for my cats, having consistently had cats live well past average age, in some cases in the twenties, so the fact that Tosca doesn't think it's all that great bothers me, and so I bought NB to mix with it to stimulate her appetite. So NB was an accident so to speak. The fact that she's doing great on it, at least outwardly, is a pleasant side effect, but I am not sure at this stage in her life I want to feed only NB to her. down the Road is important. Maybe if she were an adult, I wouldn't be thinking this way.

So you see, I am at a crossroad.

I too, am a BIG Eagle Pack fan as of recently. I have heard of a lot of dogs really liking the taste of NB though. If your dog really likes the NB and is doing well on it, why not add a raw egg daily to her diet to up her protein a little? Eggs are really healthy for dogs and that way you both get what you want.

 

[Bobsk8]

Well it's more subtle than that Bob. Obviously I am not an NB "un" fan, but we have to remember I have a puppy here not an adult dog. For starters, I am not thrilled with the protein level. Now i know you think a few percent doesn't matter, but I think it can for puppies.

I have to admit I got hooked by the almost carnival way DVP sells his food. I see nothing detrimental in it by comparison to other foods, but I do have a problem with "all breed" food for my puppy to begin with. Maybe it's pyschological. So in my mind, the foods that have the most "Chops" right now tend to make me think they are the best for her. By "Chops" I mean the foods the greatest number of hard core dog people feed.

Ok The truth is: Tosca looks Great! Her coat is beautiful (as do Smokey's and Hudson's). I have to give at least half that credit to NB as half her food is NB. But Tosca is a kid and I am just maybe a little too paranoid about the food that is best for her and sometimes wonder if I am doing right by her by not using that food which the most people find the greatest result with puppies.

I am also an Eagle Pack fan for my cats, having consistently had cats live well past average age, in some cases in the twenties, so the fact that Tosca doesn't think it's all that great bothers me, and so I bought NB to mix with it to stimulate her appetite. So NB was an accident so to speak. The fact that she's doing great on it, at least outwardly, is a pleasant side effect, but I am not sure at this stage in her life I want to feed only NB to her. down the Road is important. Maybe if she were an adult, I wouldn't be thinking this way.

So you see, I am at a crossroad.

Well that is what I used as a criteria. The result that I got when I feed NB and the nutritional breakdown of the food which to me showed the protein not much different from some other highly recommended foods. I tried feeding Smokey some higher protein foods that are often mentioned on this forum and she acted like I fed her ground wallboard.

 

[ToscasMom]

Showpug, I never thought of that. Thank you. That would definitely increase the protein intake for sure.

 

[Herschel]

Here is the reply from "Team Canidae". It didn't give much of an explanation and it seemed kind of snide.

"It is not a problem to alternate all 3 of our different dry foods, just not together at the same time due to the vitamin/mineral ratios. Also, if your puppy has trained you to feed him something new whenever he's bored you might try simply adding a little warm water.

Best of luck with your new furry friend.

Team Canidae"

I didn't appreciate the bit about my puppy having me trained. Is it so much to ask that I want my dog to enjoy eating?

In their defense, I asked both about rotating their foods and also about including foods of other companies. Apparently they only wanted to discuss their foods.

 

[ToscasMom]

LOL Herschel. I'm not really surprised. I wouldn't expect them to say Sure! Go ahead! Buy some other product and less of ours! But hey you tried.

That was nice of you to email them. I appreciate your help. Hmmm. I wonder if my puppy IS training me? Heh.

I have been reading on the net on this issue and the two things that bother me are the advisors are tied to one company and I can't get any actual information on why it's a bad idea other than I Say So. But one thing I saw that DID make a lot of sense to me is, if a dog develops an allergy, it would be a lot harder to determine the cause, because you have more elements to consider in their food.

 

[Bobsk8]

LOL Herschel. I'm not really surprised. I wouldn't expect them to say Sure! Go ahead! Buy some other product and less of ours! But hey you tried.

That was nice of you to email them. I appreciate your help. Hmmm. I wonder if my puppy IS training me? Heh.

I have been reading on the net on this issue and the two things that bother me are the advisors are tied to one company and I can't get any actual information on why it's a bad idea other than I Say So. But one thing I saw that DID make a lot of sense to me is, if a dog develops an allergy, it would be a lot harder to determine the cause, because you have more elements to consider in their food.

That is what confuses me. I have a science background and to just state that mixing 2 or more foods is problematic without giving some actual and specific examples of a mixture of 2 adding up to a problem, doesn't make any sense to me either. In fact, by that reasoning, almost all of us should be dead by the time we reach adulthood... I mean, who doesn't mix foods in their diet as well as take supplements.

Incidentally, when you call customer support at any company, you are usually talking to someone that has a script in front of them. They have no idea what the answer is if they don't read the answer that is on the script : i.e.

Is it Ok to mix different foods or brands of foods ? ans Tell the caller, " No , you should stick to one brand and one food type and if your dog stops eating the food, just wait, eventually your dog will get hungry enough to eat "wood chips..... ( I just made up the wood chips part..... :lol-sign: )

 

[Herschel]

More information from "Team Canidae":

I asked:

Thank you for the prompt reply. We almost always add warm water to our dog's food to keep him properly hydrated. When we don't, it's to give him variety and chewing for his teeth (he actually chews each piece individually). This isn't a matter of us constantly switching foods/adding things to make sure he isn't bored. We just get concerned when he won't eat for an entire day but is noticeably hungry. Our goal is for our dog to enjoy his food. Ideally, that would be a food that we enjoy feeding him.

Do you have any specific information about the vitamin/mineral imbalances that would occur from mixing foods? I've been trying to wrap my mind around this for a while but I can't make sense of it. If the All Life Stages Food is nutritionally balanced and the Chicken and Rice Formula is balanced, then alternating them on a daily basis would create an average nutrient content between the two foods. That means that no vitamins/minerals/nutrients would be in excess or in deficiency. Right? Wrong? I have no idea! Please help me understand."

The reply from Team Canidae, which completely contradicts their last response.

Hi – it is like human eating habits. They are not the same each day with nutrients and the body is well able to thrive under these circumstances. The goal is that on the average the animal or person gets nutritionally good food. Mixing foods would not be to the detriment of the animal.

CANIDAE Support

So now it is OK to feed two foods?

Does anyone else want to email Eagle Pack, Innova, etc. so we can get a consensus?

 

[Bobsk8]

More information from "Team Canidae":

I asked:



The reply from Team Canidae, which completely contradicts their last response.



So now it is OK to feed two foods?

Does anyone else want to email Eagle Pack, Innova, etc. so we can get a consensus?

Sounds like the smoke was on high and the light went through about 3 mirrors....

BTW, I just emailed NB and asked them the same question.

 

[ToscasMom]

Ok my assignment for tonight is to weigh the two foods I use and find out if they yield the same amount in cups/fractions. If the weight is the same, then going by weight still yields the same math. Wow, kinda like Mr. Wizard. lol. The Mixed Food Project. LOL.

Apparently Team Canidae is as confused as we are.

 

[ToscasMom]

I think we know Eagle's answer, based on your link Herschel. No mixing brands. It can cause problems. Pick a food. As a test, we would have to tell them that our dog hates their food and we want to feed it but can't use it alone as the dog won't eat it and then see what they say. Let's see what NB says and then I will email them.


UPDATE: I emailed them.

 

[Bobsk8]

I think we know Eagle's answer, based on your link Herschel. No mixing brands. It can cause problems. Pick a food. As a test, we would have to tell them that our dog hates their food and we want to feed it but can't use it alone as the dog won't eat it and then see what they say. Let's see what NB says and then I will email them.


UPDATE: I emailed them.

That's a great idea. That should twist them into a pretzel trying to come up with an answer to that one...........

 

[Herschel]

Haha. Do you guys feel like investigators, or is it just me?

 

[Doberluv]

Speaking of dogs training us...I don't know why anyone would take offense. They DO train us. We learn the same way they do....by reinforcement. When they train us, they're reinforcing our behavior with something we like. So we repeat it. My dogs know what to do to make me click my clicker. I get reinforced when they give me a correct response.

We like it when they eat so we try and give them foods they like. When they don't eat, we are not reinforced because it makes us worry, so we find something they like and they eat it....just the very reinforcement we wanted...our behavior is modified so that we try to find foods they like...nothing wrong with that. LOL.

 

[ToscasMom]

I feel so...so..so used!:lol-sign:

 

[darci]

May I ask what kind of Eagle Pack you are feeding ?

 

[ToscasMom]

Hi darci,
At this time, I'm feeding her the Holistic Chicken Meal and Rice although it's not the only one I tried.

 

[darci]

What other EP formulas have you tried ?
Fish ? I see you have a pup, I liked the idea in this thread where someone said to leave them on NB and just add some more protein.

I know it must be frustrating to have a food you really like but your pup has other ideas.

Mine have eat the EP Fish and loved it. I have also fed Natural Balance with a lot of good results, all 3 allergy formulas.

Currently we are feeding Timberwolf Ocean blue, they love it and are doing great.

 

[ToscasMom]

I tried all the holistics, Darci. I wont use the others because of the corn. She will eat them but she literally SCARFS down the NB. I want her to enjoy her food and to me it has been clear which one she likes. You know, that egg idea is sounding pretty good to me too. I mean that certainly would take care of my protein issues and she would still be happy eating what she likes. I really need to get off my own Eagle Pack kick in this case and focus on what works for her. She doesn't like it alone and I am the real reason she gets any at all. Old habits die hard, especially when you are a person who has seen such good results from a brand.

I still have this curiosity over mixing foods though, in a curiosity/ferret kind of way.

 

[Doberluv]

I'm not inclined to mix the foods. For example, looking at the two bags I have in the pantry right now....one for Lyric (NB) and one for the other dogs(Canidae)....I like it that the NB has the taurine in it. That's good for the heart. Dobermans are plagued with a propensity to cardiomyopathy. So, I'm glad it has some. (don't know if it's enough but....) So, say I decide to give him half the NB and half the Canidae. Canidae doesn't have any taurine. He wouldn't be getting as much taurine.

Those two foods look good, but they don't have all the same ingredients. Canidae has 24% protein and NB has 22%....no big deal there. But there are other things which are present in one, but not in the other. Anyhow...when you mix, you may be cutting down on one or more items. What if that item needs to be in that amount to balance with some other element? You're messing with the ratios or could be if the foods are not identical.

Calcium and phosphorus have something to do with eachother. It's important in feeding horses. I don't know how it all works, but Mordy would. That might get thrown out of balance if the amounts differ between two foods. Maybe it's planned out with other elements to work in one...maybe there's something about metabolizing or absorbtion...other factors, in other words that we don't know about. We may not have all the data to make a conclusion based soley on the math you're doing. There may be more to it than that, I what I'm saying.

 

[Herschel]

Doberluv,

In your situation, it makes perfect sense for you not to mix foods. Similarly, someone that has a dog with a lamb allergy that feeds a fish-based formula wouldn't want to combine their usual food with Canidae All Life Stages, which does contain lamb.

However, for those of us with no major allergies or special needs, I'm still not certain if it's OK to mix foods or not. I like your example with the calcium/phosphorus ratios. If the calcium/phosphorus is balanced in Canidae and it is also balanced in Innova Adult, then why would mixing the two create an imbalance? It's not like the amount of either mineral would be doubled or halved--it would just be an average amount of the two.

Is that average any better or any worse than feeding the original formulation? I'm waiting for a nutritionist at one of these companies to let us know!!