I apologize for the length of this, but it's the only way I seem to be able to write out my thoughts. My only intention is to help you out in some small way.
I may have misinterpreted, but it sounds like your trainer will help with your dog greeting and playing with other dogs in class but is disouraging you from some other opportunities to meet and greet. One class a week is not enough. (take it from me and my first hand experience. I will never raise a puppy where I live again. It's too difficult to find enough other dogs around here to socialize amply. Human and objects etc, I had no problem with) Finding other dogs during the week to practice with in a controlled setting is important. Staying away from other dogs will not teach your dog how to meet and greet and "talk" to other dogs. It will make him all the more naive. Under socialization is not the answer. This is why dogs act this way. I had one myself and I know... it's not fun. There are ways to do this and still have control...to teach the dog that certain behavior allows meet and greet and certain behavior removes the posibility or (reinforcer).
I agree with Adojrts. She does not sound like a trainer too well versed in motivation and reward based training.
A loose leash is simply removing the former discomfort of a taut leash. What kind of reward (reinforcer) is that? I'd say, pretty a weak one.
In order for a dog to rule out other incidental behaviors that are happening at the same time...to stop guessing and start repeating the target behavior, the one you want, she MUST develop a histoy of ample reinforcement for the behavior. Reinforcers drive behavior. Cues do not. As it was said, (but I'll repeat) behavior reinforced raises the liklihood of it's being repeated in the future. The absense of a reinforcer or the presence of a punisher raises the liklihood that the behavior will not be repeated in the future.
A reward, in order to qualify as a reinforcer MUST pass the test of two requirements: #1) It must cause the behavior to change and #2) It must be something the dog LOVES, really, really LOVES. Most dogs love treats. But there are also other reinforcers; tennis balls, squeaky toys, rope toys, a game of tug, opening the door for a dog who's wanting to go outside in the worst way, putting the dinner bowl down for a dog who's hungry, letting a dog meet and greet another dog when he wants to play. That can be a reinforcer for calm behavior. It can be given and it can be taken away. You have control and the dog can learn self control and learn what behavior brings him the good stuff and what behavior doesn't. All organisms are constantly trying to get the good stuff and avoid the bad stuff. In dog training, bad stuff doesn't have to be added by us. But good stuff can be taken away. It causes less wear and tear on the dog that way, fewer side effects and is perfectly effective.
There are all kinds of reinforcers and food is usually very high on the list for a predator/scavenger. Especially a hungry one. A reinforcer is in the eye of the beholder. Praise, for a dog that gets collar corrections is better than getting a collar correction. So, they wag their tail and look happy. Praise and punishment rarely happen at the same time so praise becomes a predictor that no collar correction or stern voice is eminent. Praise is a marginal reinforcer, sometimes not a reinforcer at all and sometimes it is, it varies depending on the dog and the context, what has happened during the time prior. It depends on a lot of variables as to whether praise is adequate at any given time or context. In other words, it's a risk to rely on praise alone if you want to develop reliable responses from your dog.
No one says that you're cruel if you mildly scold your dog. It just isn't very effective. Mild scoldings are nagging and usually aren't enough to stop a behavior for the long haul. Dogs get habituated to mild forms of punishment, develop a "punishment callous." Dogs that get punished regularly tend to behave in the owner's presence, but not in his absense. There are other side effects as well that I won't go into here. (Dogs don't understand what humans think they understand sometimes, don't understand human morals. They're amoral. They don't undersand our system of values) Dogs are only obedient to the laws of learning.
Harsh scoldings are abusive and can cause shut-down in a dog, ("learned helplessness") which absolutely works against learning. Avoidance and aggressive behaviors can develop with even collar corrections in some dogs. Collar corrections in the presence of other dogs (for instance) can cause your dog to associate the other dogs with an unpleasant time and make your dog aggressive toward other dogs. If you give a correction for one particular behavior, the dog might not associate it with the behavior you intended and instead associate it with the kids riding bikes past you or the jogger and develop an aggressive or avoidance behavior in regard to them. Since we can never be sure what stresses the dog has already experienced on a given day, from her point of view....where she is in her stress- tolerance threshold, a correction that might not bother her one day may bother her a whole lot on another day or in another context.
Behavior is a science. Scientists and trainers have studied and observed all these things and a whole lot more. This is how they came up with motivation and reward methods and that phyiscal punishment is not needed to train a dog. This does not equal permissiveness....not at all. There are other means to achieve the desired results.
Where does this come from? Pack leader. What do you do as a "pack leader" that trains your dog? Do pack leaders train other pack members to do things like not pull on a leash? What do domestic dogs do that is pack-like behavior? (not to be confused with social behavior) Do you know what specifically pack behavior is? See....personally, I along with a lot of other dog enthusiasts do not believe, since there is no evidence at all, that dogs truly are pack animals and furthermore, do not believe that dogs see us as conspecifics, which is a pre-requisit to a pack animal. I do believe that we can train our dogs and take care of them kind of like parents take care of kids. But dominance and force over them is not a facet that determines how our dogs behave. Training is. It's pretty much all about what you do with reinforcement, (very basically).
Some people say they use mostly positive reinforcement (which isn't really a very accurate description of motivation and reward training) and that they are "balanced" trainers. They use collar corrections and this and that also. The problem with that is that the dog begins to learn that working, complying, trying new behaviors often brings reward. That is his whole contingency, his whole world. Then a collar correction or mild ear pinch is sprinkled in. This changes the rules or contingencies mid stream and actually makes the positive methods less effective. It confuses the dog. They don't know whether or not to try something and you lose a lot of opportunities that he might just hit on a reinforceable behavior. His learning is reduced. There are other side effects to this "balanced" training that are too lengthy and this is already too long as it is.
This trainer doesn't use clicker training? That's okay. But why? Does she know how to use it, how extraordinarily effective and precise a communication tool it is? I think a trainer worth his/her weight ought to at least understand and be able to use the concepts of clicker training. And trainers that do, discover how truly remarkable it is and therefore do not feel a need to fall back or rely on physical punishment. When a trainer is effective with motivation and reward based methods, punishment is not needed because the things one is apt to punish a dog for are prevented from developing in the first place or can be modified or extinguished using all the tools available, which do not include things like yanking on their tracheas... and which you CAN learn too.
I hope everything goes well for you. There are a kazillion trainers out there but finding one that is worth a **** is another story.
I may have misinterpreted, but it sounds like your trainer will help with your dog greeting and playing with other dogs in class but is disouraging you from some other opportunities to meet and greet. One class a week is not enough. (take it from me and my first hand experience. I will never raise a puppy where I live again. It's too difficult to find enough other dogs around here to socialize amply. Human and objects etc, I had no problem with) Finding other dogs during the week to practice with in a controlled setting is important. Staying away from other dogs will not teach your dog how to meet and greet and "talk" to other dogs. It will make him all the more naive. Under socialization is not the answer. This is why dogs act this way. I had one myself and I know... it's not fun. There are ways to do this and still have control...to teach the dog that certain behavior allows meet and greet and certain behavior removes the posibility or (reinforcer).
I agree with Adojrts. She does not sound like a trainer too well versed in motivation and reward based training.
A loose leash is simply removing the former discomfort of a taut leash. What kind of reward (reinforcer) is that? I'd say, pretty a weak one.
In order for a dog to rule out other incidental behaviors that are happening at the same time...to stop guessing and start repeating the target behavior, the one you want, she MUST develop a histoy of ample reinforcement for the behavior. Reinforcers drive behavior. Cues do not. As it was said, (but I'll repeat) behavior reinforced raises the liklihood of it's being repeated in the future. The absense of a reinforcer or the presence of a punisher raises the liklihood that the behavior will not be repeated in the future.
A reward, in order to qualify as a reinforcer MUST pass the test of two requirements: #1) It must cause the behavior to change and #2) It must be something the dog LOVES, really, really LOVES. Most dogs love treats. But there are also other reinforcers; tennis balls, squeaky toys, rope toys, a game of tug, opening the door for a dog who's wanting to go outside in the worst way, putting the dinner bowl down for a dog who's hungry, letting a dog meet and greet another dog when he wants to play. That can be a reinforcer for calm behavior. It can be given and it can be taken away. You have control and the dog can learn self control and learn what behavior brings him the good stuff and what behavior doesn't. All organisms are constantly trying to get the good stuff and avoid the bad stuff. In dog training, bad stuff doesn't have to be added by us. But good stuff can be taken away. It causes less wear and tear on the dog that way, fewer side effects and is perfectly effective.
There are all kinds of reinforcers and food is usually very high on the list for a predator/scavenger. Especially a hungry one. A reinforcer is in the eye of the beholder. Praise, for a dog that gets collar corrections is better than getting a collar correction. So, they wag their tail and look happy. Praise and punishment rarely happen at the same time so praise becomes a predictor that no collar correction or stern voice is eminent. Praise is a marginal reinforcer, sometimes not a reinforcer at all and sometimes it is, it varies depending on the dog and the context, what has happened during the time prior. It depends on a lot of variables as to whether praise is adequate at any given time or context. In other words, it's a risk to rely on praise alone if you want to develop reliable responses from your dog.
No one says that you're cruel if you mildly scold your dog. It just isn't very effective. Mild scoldings are nagging and usually aren't enough to stop a behavior for the long haul. Dogs get habituated to mild forms of punishment, develop a "punishment callous." Dogs that get punished regularly tend to behave in the owner's presence, but not in his absense. There are other side effects as well that I won't go into here. (Dogs don't understand what humans think they understand sometimes, don't understand human morals. They're amoral. They don't undersand our system of values) Dogs are only obedient to the laws of learning.
Harsh scoldings are abusive and can cause shut-down in a dog, ("learned helplessness") which absolutely works against learning. Avoidance and aggressive behaviors can develop with even collar corrections in some dogs. Collar corrections in the presence of other dogs (for instance) can cause your dog to associate the other dogs with an unpleasant time and make your dog aggressive toward other dogs. If you give a correction for one particular behavior, the dog might not associate it with the behavior you intended and instead associate it with the kids riding bikes past you or the jogger and develop an aggressive or avoidance behavior in regard to them. Since we can never be sure what stresses the dog has already experienced on a given day, from her point of view....where she is in her stress- tolerance threshold, a correction that might not bother her one day may bother her a whole lot on another day or in another context.
Behavior is a science. Scientists and trainers have studied and observed all these things and a whole lot more. This is how they came up with motivation and reward methods and that phyiscal punishment is not needed to train a dog. This does not equal permissiveness....not at all. There are other means to achieve the desired results.
Where does this come from? Pack leader. What do you do as a "pack leader" that trains your dog? Do pack leaders train other pack members to do things like not pull on a leash? What do domestic dogs do that is pack-like behavior? (not to be confused with social behavior) Do you know what specifically pack behavior is? See....personally, I along with a lot of other dog enthusiasts do not believe, since there is no evidence at all, that dogs truly are pack animals and furthermore, do not believe that dogs see us as conspecifics, which is a pre-requisit to a pack animal. I do believe that we can train our dogs and take care of them kind of like parents take care of kids. But dominance and force over them is not a facet that determines how our dogs behave. Training is. It's pretty much all about what you do with reinforcement, (very basically).
Some people say they use mostly positive reinforcement (which isn't really a very accurate description of motivation and reward training) and that they are "balanced" trainers. They use collar corrections and this and that also. The problem with that is that the dog begins to learn that working, complying, trying new behaviors often brings reward. That is his whole contingency, his whole world. Then a collar correction or mild ear pinch is sprinkled in. This changes the rules or contingencies mid stream and actually makes the positive methods less effective. It confuses the dog. They don't know whether or not to try something and you lose a lot of opportunities that he might just hit on a reinforceable behavior. His learning is reduced. There are other side effects to this "balanced" training that are too lengthy and this is already too long as it is.
This trainer doesn't use clicker training? That's okay. But why? Does she know how to use it, how extraordinarily effective and precise a communication tool it is? I think a trainer worth his/her weight ought to at least understand and be able to use the concepts of clicker training. And trainers that do, discover how truly remarkable it is and therefore do not feel a need to fall back or rely on physical punishment. When a trainer is effective with motivation and reward based methods, punishment is not needed because the things one is apt to punish a dog for are prevented from developing in the first place or can be modified or extinguished using all the tools available, which do not include things like yanking on their tracheas... and which you CAN learn too.
I hope everything goes well for you. There are a kazillion trainers out there but finding one that is worth a **** is another story.
