Minding when distracted
- Thread starter JoeLacy
- Start date
This is where she is this morning. I taught her to say Hello this morning and did a video. I taught her down, yesterday.
13 days ago this pup had never been on a leash, did not know sit, come, down or anything else for that matter. She would jump on me not have eye contact or anything useful. She was for the most part a wild dog.
You can see where she gets distracted and how I'm trying to refocus her. If you see things I am doing wrong, please comment. Please understand, I have not tried to ever train a dog before this puppy so both of us are learning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1q0YrShHxA
13 days ago this pup had never been on a leash, did not know sit, come, down or anything else for that matter. She would jump on me not have eye contact or anything useful. She was for the most part a wild dog.
You can see where she gets distracted and how I'm trying to refocus her. If you see things I am doing wrong, please comment. Please understand, I have not tried to ever train a dog before this puppy so both of us are learning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1q0YrShHxA
I tried a Martingale collar tonight. All she did is choke herself pulling and trying to meet another dog. I was a Tree and she was hacking like a 50 year smoker and STILL pulling.
I'm going to try a gentle leader and see what that does, then go to a prong I guess. She is very strong willed and once her mind is set, it's that until the end.
She pulls to meet people too but not with the same conviction. She loves to play and run with dogs and if she had her way, she would spend her life at the dog park. Part of that is good, but minding is out of the question.
I looked at some classes today, still undecided.
I'm going to try a gentle leader and see what that does, then go to a prong I guess. She is very strong willed and once her mind is set, it's that until the end.
She pulls to meet people too but not with the same conviction. She loves to play and run with dogs and if she had her way, she would spend her life at the dog park. Part of that is good, but minding is out of the question.
I looked at some classes today, still undecided.
Yep, you were right, the Martingale did not have any effect more than a flat collar. I'm not getting a prong until I know how to use one, and hopefully never.
The Gentle Leader does have some effect. It does not stop the behavior, but it did stop most of the pulling tonight when we went out to meet dogs.
I really want to be a positive trainer and never want to inflict pain or even scold if at all possible. She's a great pup and I want her happy but she can't have her own way all the time and needs to learn some dog manners. She reminds me of a young child and throws a fit when she does not get her way. She needs some Tough love, but I'm a softy.
She knows SIT but won't do it if there is a chance she can get to play. She won't even take a treat, no eye contact and I can't get her refocused unless I move her away and even then it takes some time for her to calm down.
I'm guessing I have to teach her that she does not get to meet another dog until she settles down. This could take a while, she's full of energy and dead set on it.
She has been exercised tonight, she ran and ran and ran. We went for our walk afterwards and she still wanted to play but on the GL she was jumping around not pulling. She hates the thing and tries to rub it off every chance she gets. I feel bad about having it on her and it looks tacky but at this point I'm not sure what else to do. Fact is I have better control on the GL than any other collar I have tried.
We walked in front of starbucks twice while on the GL. She was great, only turned her head once. The GL "seems" to work in mild cases but not so much when a dog is so driven. She would normally be pulling to meet people, tonight she just walked right by them. Perfect! My guess is that the GL worked in that case because on a flat collar she pulls every time.
I clearly need professional help at this point. My guess is that any collar is just a temporary control device and is not reconditioning the behavior which is what is really needed.
The Gentle Leader does have some effect. It does not stop the behavior, but it did stop most of the pulling tonight when we went out to meet dogs.
I really want to be a positive trainer and never want to inflict pain or even scold if at all possible. She's a great pup and I want her happy but she can't have her own way all the time and needs to learn some dog manners. She reminds me of a young child and throws a fit when she does not get her way. She needs some Tough love, but I'm a softy.
She knows SIT but won't do it if there is a chance she can get to play. She won't even take a treat, no eye contact and I can't get her refocused unless I move her away and even then it takes some time for her to calm down.
I'm guessing I have to teach her that she does not get to meet another dog until she settles down. This could take a while, she's full of energy and dead set on it.
She has been exercised tonight, she ran and ran and ran. We went for our walk afterwards and she still wanted to play but on the GL she was jumping around not pulling. She hates the thing and tries to rub it off every chance she gets. I feel bad about having it on her and it looks tacky but at this point I'm not sure what else to do. Fact is I have better control on the GL than any other collar I have tried.
We walked in front of starbucks twice while on the GL. She was great, only turned her head once. The GL "seems" to work in mild cases but not so much when a dog is so driven. She would normally be pulling to meet people, tonight she just walked right by them. Perfect! My guess is that the GL worked in that case because on a flat collar she pulls every time.
I clearly need professional help at this point. My guess is that any collar is just a temporary control device and is not reconditioning the behavior which is what is really needed.
That is absolutely true.
I REALLY hope that you watched the instructional DVD that came in the box with the Gentle Leader?!? If not, go back and watch it BEFORE trying to put the GL back on your dog again. Usually you have to condition your dog to a head halter before going on a walk with it, the DVD explains all that and gives you instructions about how to condition your dog.
And yeah, be sure to continue actively training your dog while out, don't expect the GL to solve all of your problems automatically.
Hope it helps!
I REALLY hope that you watched the instructional DVD that came in the box with the Gentle Leader?!? If not, go back and watch it BEFORE trying to put the GL back on your dog again. Usually you have to condition your dog to a head halter before going on a walk with it, the DVD explains all that and gives you instructions about how to condition your dog.
And yeah, be sure to continue actively training your dog while out, don't expect the GL to solve all of your problems automatically.
Hope it helps!
I may have found a trainer. I hope to speak with her today. I spoke with her assistant yesterday and here are my thoughts based on that conversation.
This trainer will do a 1 hour private session to teach myself and the puppy a specific skill if requested. The cost is $45.00 for a private hour and I can tackle one behavior mod at a time, like "minding with distractions".
Her name is Carolyn Russo and carries the following designations MS, CPDT, CDBC and is a Certified Pet Dog Trainer and Certified Dog Behavior Consultant.
Here's her bio.
--
Carolyn holds a Master’s degree in Behavior from the University of Arkansas, is a Certified Pet Dog Trainer, has recently been certified with the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants, and is an active member of the American Boarding Kennel Association and the Association of Pet Dog Trainers. A dedicated fund raiser for animal rights organizations, she has a passion for dogs and it shows. It has been a long time dream of hers to open a ‘State of the Art’ dog facility where she could provide a home-like environment unlike traditional kennel facilities. She has been working with dogs for the past 10 years in many capacities including behavioral & training work, therapy dogs, canine T-Touch massage and holistic health care. Her current focus is in the study of pack dynamics and socialization.
--
I spoke with a few trainers yesterday and for one reason or another they didn't seem right for me. I got the impression they were well intentioned but maybe not as educated as I would like. Some did not do clicker, some advocated Prongs and a host of other methods that seemed to go against my goals. I have had good results with the clicker and would like to continue.
Some were very expensive. As I know NOTHING, I must find someone who really knows what they are doing here. Pick a trainer and stick with them. My goal would be for the trainer to teach me so I could work on it with the dog one on one and this seems to fit into their training model.
On the DVD. I tried to watch it on my computer but it would not play. Then I found out that may be in DVD-A format. My dvd player in my home theater plays dvd-a format ( I think) so I will try that dvd player today. Thanks for the reminder.
Whatever the GL does, it seems to calm my dog down. If it hits the soothing/calming portions of the face to release endorphons or what, I have no clue but for whatever reason it does seem to really work in mild/moderate cases of over excitement. My guess is that it wasn't the pulling of the head down when she pulled on the leash, my guess is something else is going on. I don't know anything about Collars but I did see a marked difference for whatever reason and that was very clear.
I need to teach her to have herself under control, not me control her by artificial means. I understand the goal, but how I get there, I have no clue just yet, but will make this priority #1 now before it's harder to recondition than it is today.
She's a smart pup and catches on quick. I have no reason to believe that she can't be reconditioned on this behavior as well. She is a social puppy, with people and dogs. I certainly don't want to take that away, just make it more controllable. She totally ignores recall when distracted and as we know, this is a life saving command that's not up for negotiation.
This trainer will do a 1 hour private session to teach myself and the puppy a specific skill if requested. The cost is $45.00 for a private hour and I can tackle one behavior mod at a time, like "minding with distractions".
Her name is Carolyn Russo and carries the following designations MS, CPDT, CDBC and is a Certified Pet Dog Trainer and Certified Dog Behavior Consultant.
Here's her bio.
--
Carolyn holds a Master’s degree in Behavior from the University of Arkansas, is a Certified Pet Dog Trainer, has recently been certified with the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants, and is an active member of the American Boarding Kennel Association and the Association of Pet Dog Trainers. A dedicated fund raiser for animal rights organizations, she has a passion for dogs and it shows. It has been a long time dream of hers to open a ‘State of the Art’ dog facility where she could provide a home-like environment unlike traditional kennel facilities. She has been working with dogs for the past 10 years in many capacities including behavioral & training work, therapy dogs, canine T-Touch massage and holistic health care. Her current focus is in the study of pack dynamics and socialization.
--
I spoke with a few trainers yesterday and for one reason or another they didn't seem right for me. I got the impression they were well intentioned but maybe not as educated as I would like. Some did not do clicker, some advocated Prongs and a host of other methods that seemed to go against my goals. I have had good results with the clicker and would like to continue.
Some were very expensive. As I know NOTHING, I must find someone who really knows what they are doing here. Pick a trainer and stick with them. My goal would be for the trainer to teach me so I could work on it with the dog one on one and this seems to fit into their training model.
On the DVD. I tried to watch it on my computer but it would not play. Then I found out that may be in DVD-A format. My dvd player in my home theater plays dvd-a format ( I think) so I will try that dvd player today. Thanks for the reminder.
Whatever the GL does, it seems to calm my dog down. If it hits the soothing/calming portions of the face to release endorphons or what, I have no clue but for whatever reason it does seem to really work in mild/moderate cases of over excitement. My guess is that it wasn't the pulling of the head down when she pulled on the leash, my guess is something else is going on. I don't know anything about Collars but I did see a marked difference for whatever reason and that was very clear.
I need to teach her to have herself under control, not me control her by artificial means. I understand the goal, but how I get there, I have no clue just yet, but will make this priority #1 now before it's harder to recondition than it is today.
She's a smart pup and catches on quick. I have no reason to believe that she can't be reconditioned on this behavior as well. She is a social puppy, with people and dogs. I certainly don't want to take that away, just make it more controllable. She totally ignores recall when distracted and as we know, this is a life saving command that's not up for negotiation.
The trainer sounds good, but it's a real shame that she doesn't teach group clases. I really think those are what you need to work around distractions. You could always work with this trainer for the one hour session, and then once you get a little bit of a handle on your dog you can get into a group class for the practice.
She may do a group I'll asked her today. That's exactly what I was thinking... an intense one on one, then get into a group. There are a lot of group classes around that are low cost even if she does not offer one. While I didn't find them as intense by their description as what I think I need right now, practice makes perfect. I found an 8 weeks intermediate obedience course for rescue dogs at $35.00. If nothing else, it could be a platform for me to practice with dogs who are somewhat under control.
I think I need the rifle bullet approach not a shotgun blast. I should be very focus on this one area and drill it over and over again. I have yet to try and teach this pup something that she did not get almost instantly. Since my post this morning, I taught her to jump up to a target, sit thenand jump down on command. This "may" have taken all of 10 minutes. A one hour private with the right trainer may move distraction mountains. If a one hour does not do it, two/one hour sessions "should" do the trick.
I got the DVD to play. Duh...the GL was too loose. I asked the salesperson to adjust it in the store and evidently she did not know how to properly fit the GL. The DVD explains how and it's now adjusted properly. I'll take it out for a test drive in a few and see if we can hunt up some dogs. I'll be testing the two finger approach as outlined on the dvd.
She walks so loose on the leash sometimes, I have to look down to see if I have a dog attached. That's a problem I'd like to have all the time. Considering she was never been on a leash two weeks ago, she has come a long way.
Hey! I have had her two weeks today!
I think I need the rifle bullet approach not a shotgun blast. I should be very focus on this one area and drill it over and over again. I have yet to try and teach this pup something that she did not get almost instantly. Since my post this morning, I taught her to jump up to a target, sit thenand jump down on command. This "may" have taken all of 10 minutes. A one hour private with the right trainer may move distraction mountains. If a one hour does not do it, two/one hour sessions "should" do the trick.
I got the DVD to play. Duh...the GL was too loose. I asked the salesperson to adjust it in the store and evidently she did not know how to properly fit the GL. The DVD explains how and it's now adjusted properly. I'll take it out for a test drive in a few and see if we can hunt up some dogs. I'll be testing the two finger approach as outlined on the dvd.
She walks so loose on the leash sometimes, I have to look down to see if I have a dog attached. That's a problem I'd like to have all the time. Considering she was never been on a leash two weeks ago, she has come a long way.
Hey! I have had her two weeks today!
I was just watching some youtube videos and it's surprising how none of the dogs fail. They put them in such non distracting dead quite rooms and magically they are some kind of world class dog trainer. I'd like to see them teach a new behavior to an untrained dog in the midst of barking dogs and running squirrels like most of us in the real world. My pup is a rocket scientist in a quiet room, but outside she's not ready for Kindergarten. I suspect that's many peoples reality and not what is portrayed on Youtube.
That is how most people try to train their dogs which brings with it a lot of struggle and confusion to the dog. But most good, professional trainers know better.
They begin teaching a new behavior....in a very non-stimulating, boring room to start. Once the dog becomes fairly reliable that way, you increase the distractions in installments, very gradually, starting on the lowest rung, from mild on up. Trying to teach a new behavior out in real life situations is going to decrease the chance for success and reinforcement which is what increases the odds for learning. For example, your focus/eye contact behavior.... Trying it out as a new behavior, where there are competing motivators (other dogs, children running, squirrels zipping up trees) is setting a dog up to fail. So you begin training in your living room where it is quiet and deadly dull. The stronger the history of reinforcment, the more opportunity for success, the more likely you'll get more correct responses in the future.
They begin teaching a new behavior....in a very non-stimulating, boring room to start. Once the dog becomes fairly reliable that way, you increase the distractions in installments, very gradually, starting on the lowest rung, from mild on up. Trying to teach a new behavior out in real life situations is going to decrease the chance for success and reinforcement which is what increases the odds for learning. For example, your focus/eye contact behavior.... Trying it out as a new behavior, where there are competing motivators (other dogs, children running, squirrels zipping up trees) is setting a dog up to fail. So you begin training in your living room where it is quiet and deadly dull. The stronger the history of reinforcment, the more opportunity for success, the more likely you'll get more correct responses in the future.
Hi Dogstar, that is a great point. I asked that question a while back and was told as long as she's still learning, I'm not going too fast so I kept going.
Ok, here she is outside with minimal amount of distractions. Good job!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHhqMw6dpw
I had planned to do one over closer to busy road noise and more people but as we walked over she spotted a squirrel. You can imagine what happened next Notice how long it took me to get her refocused. It's much worse when she sees a dog. I don't expect her not to be interested in the fuzzy moving thing, but I would like to be able to refocus her more quickly and she can't be allowed to chase anything without my permission. I guess she thought it was better to asked for forgiveness than permission in this case. If that squirrel would have hung around I would still be trying to get her to refocus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iM0E9XWbHA
I need to do a "meet a dog" video and show everyone where I am on this. BTW, this is all on a rolled collar.
Ok, here she is outside with minimal amount of distractions. Good job!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHhqMw6dpw
I had planned to do one over closer to busy road noise and more people but as we walked over she spotted a squirrel. You can imagine what happened next
Notice how long it took me to get her refocused. It's much worse when she sees a dog. I don't expect her not to be interested in the fuzzy moving thing, but I would like to be able to refocus her more quickly and she can't be allowed to chase anything without my permission. I guess she thought it was better to asked for forgiveness than permission in this case. If that squirrel would have hung around I would still be trying to get her to refocus.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iM0E9XWbHA
I need to do a "meet a dog" video and show everyone where I am on this. BTW, this is all on a rolled collar.
Something that I have noticed while reading this thread is the OP keeps referring to hot dogs as the treats/rewards.
Hot dogs are not great rewards, especially if that is all you use. They are high in salt.
All good trainers know that to be successful, you need a Training Trail Mix.
In the Trail Mix you have kibble as a low reward (for slow responses) and other rewards that the dog REALLY LOVES for awesome responses. You have to find out what will make your dog come out of its skin for a certain reward. My dog goes nuts for baked sardines or baked salmon cakes. Homemade baked liver is in the middle.
To give an example, listed from low to high rewards.
kibble, rollover, natural balance, homemade liver, chicken, turkey, cheese, fried egg, cheeseburger, steak, sardines, salmon cakes, quail hearts.
If someone held a dollar bill and told me that I had to go sit in a chair to recieve it I would do it, but hold a $1000 out and nobody had better get in my way to that chair!!!!!!!!
Hot dogs are not great rewards, especially if that is all you use. They are high in salt.
All good trainers know that to be successful, you need a Training Trail Mix.
In the Trail Mix you have kibble as a low reward (for slow responses) and other rewards that the dog REALLY LOVES for awesome responses. You have to find out what will make your dog come out of its skin for a certain reward. My dog goes nuts for baked sardines or baked salmon cakes. Homemade baked liver is in the middle.
To give an example, listed from low to high rewards.
kibble, rollover, natural balance, homemade liver, chicken, turkey, cheese, fried egg, cheeseburger, steak, sardines, salmon cakes, quail hearts.
If someone held a dollar bill and told me that I had to go sit in a chair to recieve it I would do it, but hold a $1000 out and nobody had better get in my way to that chair!!!!!!!!
I use hot dogs as high reward treats with Sarama, but only for that. They are too high in salt to use all the time, and more importantly, you shouldn't use your best things all the time!!
Adojrts, where on earth are you getting quail hearts, and where do I find some? Short of catching quail and tearing out their still beating hearts like some sort of second-rate Aztec priest that is.
Adojrts, where on earth are you getting quail hearts, and where do I find some? Short of catching quail and tearing out their still beating hearts like some sort of second-rate Aztec priest that is.
Adojrts made a good point about the treats. I use hotdogs and cheese (mozzarella or cheddar) as the very highest reward for my dogs. I only use it when they're under a lot of distraction, or when I need them to REALLY like a behavior. For general training in the house I usually use kibble and/or pieces of biscuits, or maybe liver treats if I'm teaching something hard. If you save your best treats for the best behaviors, that keeps the best treats still the best. Like, I love chocolate cake, but if I ate it every day I'd get sick of it. Same with treats - if you only give them hotdogs, not only will hotdogs loose their value, but other lesser treats will as well since they're not as good as hotdogs.
lol the quail hearts are freeze dried and come from a local vender that makes all kinds of cool dog treats, all natural etc.
I don't know if they ship to the states or not but I can find out. I am going to an agility trial next month and they should be set up there. They are also located just in the next town from me and I can give him a call.
The quail hearts even freeze dried are still soft and not badly dried out, easy but not messy to split in two. I was really surprised at how much my dogs went nuts for them.............so I use them at trials as a huge reward for a job well done or when training something really difficult.
I don't know if they ship to the states or not but I can find out. I am going to an agility trial next month and they should be set up there. They are also located just in the next town from me and I can give him a call.
The quail hearts even freeze dried are still soft and not badly dried out, easy but not messy to split in two. I was really surprised at how much my dogs went nuts for them.............so I use them at trials as a huge reward for a job well done or when training something really difficult.