May have found a Beauceron Breeder

[Roxy's CD]

As some of you know, I've been looking for a "breed".

Beauceron's are at the top of my list with Rottweilers a close second. (There's a great breeder in my area, well known, great reputation)

But, my heart I think is set on a Beauceron, after only first hearing about them a few months ago.

Now don't worry, I'm not about to rush into anything

Here is the link to the breeders site:
http://www.geocities.com/beauceron_1999/

I spoke to him for at least 45 minutes, about the temperment of his dogs, what he does with them, how long he's been with the breed, lines etc.

To me, it sounds good so far. He's been around the breed for about 12 years. He's actively involved in Ring Sport as well as Schutz. All of his breeding stock comes straight from France, and he's making a trip in October to Spain to get a few more dogs from lines that he likes. He does all the testing, and the certificates are available on his site.

So for all you cynics out there (joking ) Tell me what's wrong, or what seems fishy about it, if anything.

He also made a comment about Roxy's "issues", and stated it sounds like a dog that has the perfect temperment for Schutz! Believe me, I was surprised!

While discussing the fact that schutz is something in years, that I'd like to do most likely just for the heck of it, but perhaps in competition, and how Roxy would most likely not pass a test to even train for Schutz. He mentioned that schutz is all about control.

Now saying that, it's much easier to work on obedience and control than to teach a dog aggressiveness. (When it comes to the PP part) He personally prefers a dog with that "edge", which is what Esther commonly refers Roxy's bouts too.

He also went into detail about how training a Beauce is much different than any other dog. And how they often, will shut down, or refuse to work when leash corrections, or too harsh an atmosphere is set.

I know! Sounds just like Roxy doesn't it!

So, not only did a get a lot of info about the breed today, but found out that maybe, just maybe, Roxy isn't as horrible as I've been told she is. She is fairly obedience and not outright aggressive. From him just hearing me explain our "problems", he stated it was an edge that he likes with his dogs.

So let me know what you think honestly. That's the whole point of me putting it out there.

He only has about 2 litters a year as well, I don't think he stated that on the website.

 

[MomOf7]

Sounds good so far. I personally didnt see anything alarming on the site. Theres some info but really not enough to base a educated opinion.
Sounds like he knows the breed very well.

 

[Whisper]

I clicked the link and it says "Site not available."

 

[stevinski]

he sounds great!, i cant wait to have a convo with my future breeder
did you ask about health testing?

 

[Jynx]

I also get site not available..Have you checked out the beauceron club of america's site???

I know at one point a few years ago, I was looking at beauceron's. There are very few breeders here in the states,. If you can find an ARBA show near you, check it out, beauceron's are shown in rare breed shows.

I was impressed on how tight knit the breeders were of these dogs, (atleast the ones I talked to), they don't want the dog becoming a 'fad', and are dedicated to preserving their french heritage.
Diane

 

[bubbatd]

To me , this is up to you and to do careful checks. Because of my age, I'd rather stick to tried and true breeds. I mean , ones I know ..Good luck ...I'm willing to learn !

 

[Zoom]

It's a rather 'shallow' site as far as actual details go, but his dogs look nice. I love Beauces and would love to have one some day. I worked under the lady who has the #1 Male in the US right now...didn't care much for her as a GM, but she knows her Beauces! Mes Yeux Vigilants is her kennel name...no website though, but you can look up her lines here: http://www.aboutbeaucerons.com/cgi-...&pattern=Mes+Yeux+Vigilants&submit=Search+Now

this is also a good site to just look around for Beauces in general.

 

[Roxy's CD]

I think he gave me site that site, www.aboutbeaucersons.ca though.

He said I could look up the pedigrees there and everything.

He does all the health testing, eyes, hips and elbows. Is there anything else he should be doing?

The only thing I didn't quite like, was the fact that he doesn't have a s/n contract and there's no application. BUT, he said he likes to meet everyone long before they get a pup, to see if they're ready to handle their high drive and their rare "intelligence".

J's Crew- I'm in Canada. I've thought about shipping for a pup, but I don't really like the idea. Seems like an awful lot of stress for a puppy

I don't know why the link doesn't work.

www.beauceron.ca

Maybe try that?

Yes Zoom. The site isn't full of information about his breeding. But he says that he was in a bad car accident a few years ago, which stopped him from being able to travel overseas to get new breeding stock. So his breeding program is just starting up again.

Is 9 too old for a bitch to have a litter?

I asked about any planned breedings, and he's breeding a 9 year old and a 5 year old, that both have not been bred in years.

 

[Zoom]

I think 9 is much too old for a bitch to be having a litter. I know that some of the old guys can still "rock the house", but since this breed only lives to about 10-14 depending on lines and life, 9 is pretty middle-aged. 3 or 4 is about as young as I'd to see and 6 or 7 at the oldest.

 

[Roxy's CD]

Thanks Zoom. I'm inexperienced, but I did think that was a bit old.

Do you think that's a reason to rule him out as a breeder?

 

[Zoom]

I would grill him to the nth degree as to why he feels he has to breed this dog. It sounds essentially like he's bringing a retired bitch back out again...why? Does he really not have any good dogs left in his program? Did he not sell at least one dog on a co-own? And perhaps I'm a heartless skeptic, but the car accident "can't bring in any new stock" excuse sounds a little convienent. I can accept it as to why he doesn't have a "good" website, but I would think that any and all energy he has would be put into his dogs anyway.

But that's me.

 

[J's crew]

I would grill him to the nth degree as to why he feels he has to breed this dog. It sounds essentially like he's bringing a retired bitch back out again...why? Does he really not have any good dogs left in his program? Did he not sell at least one dog on a co-own? And perhaps I'm a heartless skeptic, but the car accident "can't bring in any new stock" excuse sounds a little convienent. I can accept it as to why he doesn't have a "good" website, but I would think that any and all energy he has would be put into his dogs anyway.

But that's me.

Yep, nine is too old.

 

[doberkim]

I think anyone who tells you in one phone call that Roxy should be doing Schutzhund isn't a breeder I would be looking at.

Dogs trained in bite sport above all should be STABLE dogs, and Roxy is far from stable, based on what you have told us on this board.

 

[stevinski]

i would call again and ask more questions,

like about the 9 year old and stuff

 

[bubbatd]

Glad you're really checking this out ... Yup ...9 is too old.

 

[Roxy's CD]

I've e-mailed him and asked him why he plans on breeding such an old bitch. If he feels that she is healthy enough, because she's a hard worker, excells at the sports he trains in what.

I have a feeling though, and he somewhat implied it, that if he gets the lines he's trying for in Spain this October, he may not be breeding her. But the fact that he did mention it does appear to be a worry. (I believe your right Zoom, and he's taken this bitch out of retirement, he lost two females shortly after a trip to France so I think this is why, not that it's an excuse though)

Doberkim, whilst I respect many of your opinions, your negativity bothers me.

I did not say once, that he said Roxy SHOULD be doing schutzhund. What he said was that it sounds as though she has that competitive edge, that many schutzhund trainers look for. And he explained why.

Schutzhund is about control. Roxy is obedient. The only times she would appear unstable is when strangers go to touch her. Which has been mentioned to me, that some dogs, prefer their own pack to others.

I'm also sure that your referring to her "dominance" issues regarding the furniture, or her displeasure that she shows sometimes, when she is physically corrected for something that she does NOT want to do. I have spoken to people that have also been told their dog is having "dominance" issues and since they've spoken to many behaviourlists, and the outcome is this: Some dogs are dominant. They don't have dominant issues. They are plainly, simply dominant. You can tone down this PERSONALITY trait, by implementing methods like NILIF, and other methods used to assert your own dominance, but this will not break the dogs clearly, dominant personality. This is what I've been told.

I've tried many tactics out there, and since her recent furniture bans, and limitations, other than sometimes her lack of enthusiasm for certain activities, IMO Roxy is NOT unstable.

Roxy has never bit me. I've never been afraid that Roxy is going to bite me.

Since the furniture issue, her attitude has changed greatly. She no longer fusses about certain things that are dominant behaviours, such as showing protest getting off the couch.

So whilst, I do respect many of your opinions, even as an unexperienced dog person, even I can understand what he was trying to get at.

It is much easier to train a dog for schutz competition, to be obedient, to have control. Then to teach a submissive, obedient dog, the aggressive, vicious nature that the bite work requires.

A dog in schutz or French ring sport, that is enthusiastic about the take down will earn more points than a dog that works like a robot.

 

[Jynx]

I'm on the fence about whether I'd get a dog from this guy..Reason being, I've seen and heard of better, so why go with mediocre I guess is my thinking.

Since this guy seems to be close to you, I'd ask him if you could come visit his dogs. Won't cost you a thing but time, and you could get a feel for his dogs.

In the meantime I wouldn't rule out shipping one. I am not a big fan of shipping either, prefering to be there, meet the dogs, meet the breeder etc. but ya know sometimes things worth having are 1. worth waiting for and 2. worth doing what we may not always do.

I think if you can find a good breeder that you can really trust, that knows their stuff, then you'd feel more comfortable allowing that breeder to pick that perfect puppy for you..My last two dogs were breeder picks for me, and I have never regretted it..

Diane

 

[Roxy's CD]

Jynx- He said regardless of whether I get a dog from him or not, he wants me to go see his dogs.

1. So I can meet the breed to see if I can handle them. (even if I don't plan on getting one from him)

2. To see what I think of his dogs.

I might consider shipping if I met a breeder that I really trusted, but I was hoping to find someone somewhat local, so I could work WITH them, yano? Any questions I had I could direct right to them. This man has also offered for me to train with him. So I could learn what tactics has worked best for him with the breed. He's purely motivational, he claims that corrections will shut a beauce down.

Ok, so Diane, what is better about other breeders? What do you feel is not so good about him?

 

[Jynx]

I don't really see anything "bad" about him, and I would definately take him up on his offer to go visit his dogs.

Go with your gut! I don't know if you've checked out this site yet, but it has alot of good questions to ask a breeder http://www.beauce.org/ and lists their code of ethics and such.

I do know how you feel about wanting to find a breeder close by, it's by far, most convenient to be able to meet everyone, see the dogs etc.

That site listed above, also lists the winning dogs of past specialities, my gosh the dog that took BOB had so many titles I couldn't count them all.
diane