Mandy's puppies - 10 days old!
- Thread starter mmorlino
- Start date
see I haven't seen any attacking.. just ppl getting frustrated at the lack of answers. If she has real reasons for things then she should just give them. If she doesn't then say that too.
Its the 'woe is me, you ppl are mean' when she is the one who told us the 'untruths and misleading statements' in the first place.
Its the 'woe is me, you ppl are mean' when she is the one who told us the 'untruths and misleading statements' in the first place.
Oh please 
if you really think everyone here has been nothing but nice and innocent about all this then you've got some rose colored glasses on. Some people have sounded like they do care but for the most part it's been nothing but a witch hunt and yes I feel she's been "attacked".
if you really think everyone here has been nothing but nice and innocent about all this then you've got some rose colored glasses on. Some people have sounded like they do care but for the most part it's been nothing but a witch hunt and yes I feel she's been "attacked".
It's amazing how people cannot grok constructive criticisms and are always perceiving such as "attacking". If someone tells me my art sucks, that's an attack. If someone tells me that my art could improve in certain places and they offer suggestions as to how, that's constructive criticism.
So, how is anyone attacking here?
(I say "you" in a general term)
You see what this is all about?
You demand "proof" that I health test - I give it to you. Then you say, "But you're not really doing it because you're doing it at less than 2 years of age"
I give you reasons why I am keeping back Ally for a possible show prospect. You say, "But there's no champions in her pedigree" (which, of course, I have showed you three different pedigrees stating otherwise)
I tell you that I have never lied and that the show breeder that is buying Duke knows exactly what she's doing... And you continue to tell me that I'm making 'untruths and misleading statements'.
It's all, "explain this, explain that, BUT you're still bad" I hope you all understand why I never feel the need to "defend" myself. Because there's just no point in doing it.
If you don't like me, you're never going to like me. You're going to find something wrong. You WANT to villianize me, and you're going to do it regardless of what I say.
So, yes, I will continue to post cute pictures and videos. And yes, I will ignore the negative comments.
You see what this is all about?
You demand "proof" that I health test - I give it to you. Then you say, "But you're not really doing it because you're doing it at less than 2 years of age"
I give you reasons why I am keeping back Ally for a possible show prospect. You say, "But there's no champions in her pedigree" (which, of course, I have showed you three different pedigrees stating otherwise)
I tell you that I have never lied and that the show breeder that is buying Duke knows exactly what she's doing... And you continue to tell me that I'm making 'untruths and misleading statements'.
It's all, "explain this, explain that, BUT you're still bad" I hope you all understand why I never feel the need to "defend" myself. Because there's just no point in doing it.
If you don't like me, you're never going to like me. You're going to find something wrong. You WANT to villianize me, and you're going to do it regardless of what I say.
So, yes, I will continue to post cute pictures and videos. And yes, I will ignore the negative comments.
I'd still like to see the references that say skipping heats is bad for them so they should be bred on their first heat...and I'm not being an asshat about that, I'd be very interested to see and read that as it conflicts with everything else I've ever read and I'm always up for new information.
Just saying, if you stand by your practices and want to make it seem like it's "right" because of your research, please post the research to accompany. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person interested in reading it.
Just saying, if you stand by your practices and want to make it seem like it's "right" because of your research, please post the research to accompany.
I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person interested in reading it.
Ok mis leading statements..
There are ch. in the pedigree.. sure if you dig far enough back.. You can find more ch in a lot of puppy mill dogs..
You health test... ok so one dog CERF'd clear as a youngster. That really doen't count. Thats like looking at a 16 year old girl and saying "see no arthritis" so obviously there is no risk of early or debilitating arthritis right? The Male isn't even CERF'd One is PRA carrier, one is clear.. so good on that one. No proof of any other testing...
Your pups are show quality.. but you have been breeding for 10 years but haven't bothered show yet (most people show first then breed) Not that I show conformation.. but I do show in lots of other things with my dogs and don't breed till they are older. Its not just the person you sold a pup to you are being misleading too, its everyone who reads this thread, or that you tell from your site.
There are ch. in the pedigree.. sure if you dig far enough back.. You can find more ch in a lot of puppy mill dogs..
You health test... ok so one dog CERF'd clear as a youngster. That really doen't count. Thats like looking at a 16 year old girl and saying "see no arthritis" so obviously there is no risk of early or debilitating arthritis right? The Male isn't even CERF'd One is PRA carrier, one is clear.. so good on that one. No proof of any other testing...
Your pups are show quality.. but you have been breeding for 10 years but haven't bothered show yet (most people show first then breed) Not that I show conformation.. but I do show in lots of other things with my dogs and don't breed till they are older. Its not just the person you sold a pup to you are being misleading too, its everyone who reads this thread, or that you tell from your site.
I am really not trying to be a snot, but I am really curious why breed so young. You still haven't answered that. I have seen research stating that it's best not to skip heats so I can understand why someone would do that. But I have never seen research that states that breeding under two is healthy. In fact everything I've read is contrary to that. So I really just want to know the reasoning.
A little defense here . My pups were from CH. lines on all sides . I never wanted to show though my mentor did show my Bubba in a puppy class and won 1st place . The 2 pups he took as pick of the litters went on to CH. I never advertised so I never said they were show quality . They were if people chose to show . Most just wanted a wonderful member of the family . BUT .... I never bred before full testing after 2 yrs. old and never bred every heat . I took breeding very seriously for the betterment of the breed and I sure miss my wonderful litters . From their whelp until 8-9 weeks they were my full time commitment .
Well actually some of the first things said to her was accusations that she was a BYB. There were no questions. Yes people have asked questions since but the first things said were certainly not an attempt at being constructive.
I've seen her answer questions several times but then I guess people didn't like the answer so they just say she hasn't answered.
I don't really care to get into a semantics debate about whether she's been "attacked" or not. If you want to think that people were innocently asking questions and nothing more, then that's fine with me. Arguing whether it was "attack" or "criticism" won't get us anywhere.
I've seen her answer questions several times but then I guess people didn't like the answer so they just say she hasn't answered.
I don't really care to get into a semantics debate about whether she's been "attacked" or not. If you want to think that people were innocently asking questions and nothing more, then that's fine with me. Arguing whether it was "attack" or "criticism" won't get us anywhere.
I'd guess she's perhaps just having patellas checked on some dogs and not bothering with hips or elbows...I think you can do patellas earlier. Although not a single dog has an OFA number, so not sure on that. And it would seem the male's breeder doesn't test either, since nothing but the eye check is listed. It also lists him as an award winning dog, when the only thing listed is an award from an online dog show....which seems somewhat less than professional.
Since the only mention of traits to be passed on to pups is color, it would seem that that is the focus of the breeding program. And I guess you can do that by breeding a dog of any age.
It seems laughable to me to say a dog has a champion pedigree, though, if the only champion dog is a great grandparent, though. Conformation showing is not the end all, be all by any means but if you're representing your dogs as such, it just seems dishonest. I noted that it says the person who bought the little pup as a show prospect is set on using the dog as a start to a breeding program. I hope that they plan to do things correctly, but somehow I am expecting not.
Since the only mention of traits to be passed on to pups is color, it would seem that that is the focus of the breeding program. And I guess you can do that by breeding a dog of any age.
It seems laughable to me to say a dog has a champion pedigree, though, if the only champion dog is a great grandparent, though. Conformation showing is not the end all, be all by any means but if you're representing your dogs as such, it just seems dishonest. I noted that it says the person who bought the little pup as a show prospect is set on using the dog as a start to a breeding program. I hope that they plan to do things correctly, but somehow I am expecting not.
I do believe the correct term which thoroughly applies in this instance is..
"Flogging a dead horse"
It would appear that the OP feels that she has answered all questions satisfactorily, and it would appear that the rest of us find her answers lacking in specific details, i'm not wanting to get involved in this really but I HAVE read the whole thread from start to finish and there are some questions that have never been answered, just overlooked.
I'm not sure that people are going to get what they are after here.. And we seem to just be going round and round and round.
I would hope that the OP will take onboard some of the advice given here as to ethical and safe breeding practices, and will enquire further should the need arise.
I wish the pups every luck and happiness for the future be it in a pet or show environment..
"Flogging a dead horse"
It would appear that the OP feels that she has answered all questions satisfactorily, and it would appear that the rest of us find her answers lacking in specific details, i'm not wanting to get involved in this really but I HAVE read the whole thread from start to finish and there are some questions that have never been answered, just overlooked.
I'm not sure that people are going to get what they are after here.. And we seem to just be going round and round and round.
I would hope that the OP will take onboard some of the advice given here as to ethical and safe breeding practices, and will enquire further should the need arise.
I wish the pups every luck and happiness for the future be it in a pet or show environment..
That is *along* the lines of what Dr. Hutchison (he is a leading repo vet for dogs) recommends: He recommends that people consider this system/program of breeding which maybe easier on the bitch in the long run. However, he also states it also has alot of to do with health of the bitch. He recommends: breeding twice in a row, then giving her a heat off and breeding once more then spaying, instead of breeding a bitch once a year for several years. Having posted that, I have never seen it recommended that a bitch be bred on her first heat or at a young age. (just to be clear on that issue)