Living with someone advice/If your SO wanted to live with someone of opposite sex..
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I lived with roommates twice before DH and I moved in together. One roomie situation was pretty awful and the other was generally pretty darn good.
Finding a person who has similar goals/expectations from roomie-ing was key, as was being comfortable enough to TALK about issues that came up, versus just stewing. Seriously, TALK - it really helps!
Additionally, sit down and discuss the details of chores, cleanliness, visitors, etc. before actually moving in. My roomies and I didn't really set hard and fast rules or chore charts in either situation, but in one situation that didn't work at all (we really needed hard and fast rules I think because we had different definitions of cleanliness, appropriate frequency of chores, etc.), and in the other it was totally fine.
Now, about living with a guy. Moving in with DH was a bit harder than anticipated - while he is a neat freak when it comes to papers and miscellaneous items (I pile and stack things, he prefers everything in a specific place), he does NOT have any issue with dirty dishes in the sink or toothpaste buildup in the sink. Also, no matter how clean the guy, there always seems to be some wayward pee drips around the toilet. >.< To remedy the issues I was having, I'm in charge of the sink/counters and he's in charge of bathrooms and we've both compromised a little. Compromise is a wonderful thing!
I'm not sure how much of the differences in cleaning preferences is due to him being a guy and how much is just being a not-me human, but the disconnects I saw also seem to be common with my female friends who live with men.
Other than that, though, living with DH really isn't different than living with any other roomie if you ignore the whole "married partners" part of that equation.
Finding a person who has similar goals/expectations from roomie-ing was key, as was being comfortable enough to TALK about issues that came up, versus just stewing. Seriously, TALK - it really helps!
Additionally, sit down and discuss the details of chores, cleanliness, visitors, etc. before actually moving in. My roomies and I didn't really set hard and fast rules or chore charts in either situation, but in one situation that didn't work at all (we really needed hard and fast rules I think because we had different definitions of cleanliness, appropriate frequency of chores, etc.), and in the other it was totally fine.
Now, about living with a guy. Moving in with DH was a bit harder than anticipated - while he is a neat freak when it comes to papers and miscellaneous items (I pile and stack things, he prefers everything in a specific place), he does NOT have any issue with dirty dishes in the sink or toothpaste buildup in the sink. Also, no matter how clean the guy, there always seems to be some wayward pee drips around the toilet. >.< To remedy the issues I was having, I'm in charge of the sink/counters and he's in charge of bathrooms and we've both compromised a little. Compromise is a wonderful thing!
I'm not sure how much of the differences in cleaning preferences is due to him being a guy and how much is just being a not-me human, but the disconnects I saw also seem to be common with my female friends who live with men.
Other than that, though, living with DH really isn't different than living with any other roomie if you ignore the whole "married partners" part of that equation.
This sounds like an absolutely terrible idea imo, and it sounds like your friend does not value/respect his girlfriend at all. If my husband had told (told!) me he was moving in with an ex girlfriend/close girlfriend/someone he was attracted to while we were dating, the relationship would have been over. That's extremely hurtful to me 
You live in a city of millions of people, and this guy is the only one who would make a good roommate? And only if it was just the two of you? I think his girlfriend has every right to be worried/upset/hurt.
You live in a city of millions of people, and this guy is the only one who would make a good roommate? And only if it was just the two of you? I think his girlfriend has every right to be worried/upset/hurt.
If I were the girlfriend, this guy would be my EX boyfriend.
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For the record, on a case-by-case basis, I'd be ok with an SO living with an "ex" or previous partner, depending on the relationship.
If they were ever "in love", dated for an extended period of time (I'll say a year +), or still considered themselves extremely close friends, I wouldn't be okay with it. If it was primarily a sexual thing, or they dated, broke up, and didn't remain very close, I'd be fine with it. It'd also depend on my partner's history of fidelity with both myself and past partners.
People break up or don't end up together for lots of reasons - but they also date or develop feelings for reasons, and just because there are more reasons to not be together than reasons to stay together doesn't mean the latter just go away. And when you're living in close quarters with someone and spending time with them alone together (watching TV or movies at night, doing home-improvement projects, eating dinner together), those reasons become very apparent. For me, it's way easier to control sexual attraction than it is to control emotional attraction, but I think that's different for everyone.
Anyway, in your case, Fran - I don't think living with this guy is a bad idea. I personally try not to live with friends - it's too hard to navigate and way easier to move in with someone who is strictly a roommate - but other people are more comfortable living with friends, and that works fine for them.
I think if those text messages said something like "I'd really like to meet Fran before you move in with her so I'll be more comfortable with it", that's perfectly normal and it will go fine.
However, if he's showing you some serious discussion they had about her comfortable level, no matter how dramatic she was being or not, you ARE being dragged into their drama and their relationship dynamic. No, you might not end up homeless, but Bob might end up resenting you if this girl breaks up with him because she can't deal with it. This girl might end up being sweet as pie at dinner, but treating you horribly in your own home. Bob might constantly be asking you to help him reassure his GF, which is going to get really annoying after a while. If you guys hang out and watch netflix together, that's going to stop as soon as his GF gets pissy about it and manages to call him every single time you start the movie. If they do split up, she might start saying a lot of stuff about you behind your back, accusing you of causing the breakup, etc.
She might not care that much at all and get right over it. You're the only one who can try your best to judge how she feels about it...but if she doesn't feel good about it, just be aware that moving in with him is going to drastically change your friendship, and possibly come with serious drama on her part.
If they were ever "in love", dated for an extended period of time (I'll say a year +), or still considered themselves extremely close friends, I wouldn't be okay with it. If it was primarily a sexual thing, or they dated, broke up, and didn't remain very close, I'd be fine with it. It'd also depend on my partner's history of fidelity with both myself and past partners.
People break up or don't end up together for lots of reasons - but they also date or develop feelings for reasons, and just because there are more reasons to not be together than reasons to stay together doesn't mean the latter just go away. And when you're living in close quarters with someone and spending time with them alone together (watching TV or movies at night, doing home-improvement projects, eating dinner together), those reasons become very apparent. For me, it's way easier to control sexual attraction than it is to control emotional attraction, but I think that's different for everyone.
Anyway, in your case, Fran - I don't think living with this guy is a bad idea. I personally try not to live with friends - it's too hard to navigate and way easier to move in with someone who is strictly a roommate - but other people are more comfortable living with friends, and that works fine for them.
I think if those text messages said something like "I'd really like to meet Fran before you move in with her so I'll be more comfortable with it", that's perfectly normal and it will go fine.
However, if he's showing you some serious discussion they had about her comfortable level, no matter how dramatic she was being or not, you ARE being dragged into their drama and their relationship dynamic. No, you might not end up homeless, but Bob might end up resenting you if this girl breaks up with him because she can't deal with it. This girl might end up being sweet as pie at dinner, but treating you horribly in your own home. Bob might constantly be asking you to help him reassure his GF, which is going to get really annoying after a while. If you guys hang out and watch netflix together, that's going to stop as soon as his GF gets pissy about it and manages to call him every single time you start the movie. If they do split up, she might start saying a lot of stuff about you behind your back, accusing you of causing the breakup, etc.
She might not care that much at all and get right over it. You're the only one who can try your best to judge how she feels about it...but if she doesn't feel good about it, just be aware that moving in with him is going to drastically change your friendship, and possibly come with serious drama on her part.
Some roommates are really easy to live with, and others are really hard. I agree with others that you just need to sit down and talk about how you want to handle things like cleaning and food. I don't think it matters HOW you do it as long as both of you are on the same page.
For food, I personally prefer keeping everything separate. Otherwise it's inevitable IME that you really, really have your buds up for something you know is waiting at home to find it... not waiting at home. And when you're on a student's budget I think it's harder to plan out the week's meals unless you're in control/possession of all the supplies/ingredients.
Cleaning can be weird, because it's unlikely that your standards for what is clean will be exactly the same. You can either split chores up so that each person is doing the ones they are more fastidious about (assuming one person isn't more fastidious about everything) or trade off chores weekly or monthly (my personal slight preference so no one is stuck with anything forever and ever). Stuff like dishes or general clutter I personally prefer each person should just be responsible for themselves, but that can be hard if one person is a "wash my dishes as soon as I'm done with my meal" kind of person and another is a "wash all my dishes at the end of the day" kind of person. You just really have to talk about stuff like that to avoid getting weird and resentful about stuff.
For food, I personally prefer keeping everything separate. Otherwise it's inevitable IME that you really, really have your buds up for something you know is waiting at home to find it... not waiting at home. And when you're on a student's budget I think it's harder to plan out the week's meals unless you're in control/possession of all the supplies/ingredients.
Cleaning can be weird, because it's unlikely that your standards for what is clean will be exactly the same. You can either split chores up so that each person is doing the ones they are more fastidious about (assuming one person isn't more fastidious about everything) or trade off chores weekly or monthly (my personal slight preference so no one is stuck with anything forever and ever). Stuff like dishes or general clutter I personally prefer each person should just be responsible for themselves, but that can be hard if one person is a "wash my dishes as soon as I'm done with my meal" kind of person and another is a "wash all my dishes at the end of the day" kind of person. You just really have to talk about stuff like that to avoid getting weird and resentful about stuff.
I talk to both my exes about my current relationship. They both know what I am like in a relationship so I really value their opinion on situations. They often open my eyes to a perspective I am not seeing. So possibly that could be why he has shown her texts/private conversations?
Either way I think the whole situation is fine. Good luck with your dinner Fran. Hopefully it will put her mind at ease.
Either way I think the whole situation is fine. Good luck with your dinner Fran. Hopefully it will put her mind at ease.
I talk to my ex, but that's not the point. This girl obviously appears uncomfortable, and that's her prerogative (wow, I've been using this word for years and never knew it was spelt like that).... And unless I thought this relationship wasn't going to last, I'd be hesitant. I mean.... Like I said, if she was cool about it then fine.. But she's not :/
It's weird when exses and currents meet up, and you are lucky if it works out. Im in touch with my ex, but it's been about 8 years since we split up, he has a partner and child now!
When I had my leaving do and moved in with my current, his parting words to my boyfriend were 'good luck'. LOL.
I think even having to ask for her perspective is showing there is something out of the ordinary here.
I'd only do this if I was confident and not even questioning how she feels.
It's weird when exses and currents meet up, and you are lucky if it works out. Im in touch with my ex, but it's been about 8 years since we split up, he has a partner and child now!
When I had my leaving do and moved in with my current, his parting words to my boyfriend were 'good luck'. LOL.
I think even having to ask for her perspective is showing there is something out of the ordinary here.
I'd only do this if I was confident and not even questioning how she feels.
I can imagine how the GF must feel, I wouldnt know how to approach this, though while I was in a relationship I did have a male "roommate/landlord" (it was his house) ... albiet he was like 80 years old so I dont think there was anything to worry about lol :rofl1.
He was (which I didnt agree with but he did keep his dogs in good condition, I actually helped clean & build his new kennels) essentially a BYB so I earned my keep by cooking the meals & kennel/dog maintaince (he only had like 6 dogs).
He was (which I didnt agree with but he did keep his dogs in good condition, I actually helped clean & build his new kennels) essentially a BYB so I earned my keep by cooking the meals & kennel/dog maintaince (he only had like 6 dogs).
I don't feel it's my place to dictate anything at all to a grown man I'm in a relationship of any length of time with, nor is it his to dictate anything to me. We have conversations about the things that might bother us and make choices and compromises that reflect our concern for one another's feelings, but one adult straight up telling another adult what they may and may not do just... is not something I understand or am interested in.
Having said that, I agree with Dizzy. I think the GF just wanted to meet Fran first, she hasn't actually said he can or can't do anything as far as I can tell.
Having said that, I agree with Dizzy. I think the GF just wanted to meet Fran first, she hasn't actually said he can or can't do anything as far as I can tell.
You don't know this girl and she doesn't know you. You have no idea how stable their relationship is or how he's described you to her. Her meeting you could backfire, just so you know. If she doesn't meet you, she can paint you however she wants in her head. she can make you less of a threat by how he acts, how he talks etc. She can picture you fat, ugly, obnoxious etc. and can give herself more comfort. If she meets you - she may feel more threatened because she could see how you look, size you up as competition. It's just going to make it worse IMHO.
As far as living together, I'm not sure if I would recommend it. You said you had a relationship with him in the past, right? That kind of makes things tricky.
As far as living together, I'm not sure if I would recommend it. You said you had a relationship with him in the past, right? That kind of makes things tricky.
Me too.
DH and I met in March and were engaged the following Christmas. We were dating exclusively by four months. If he had the thought that he might change cities and move in with an ex lover I would have absolutely expected to be consulted on the matter, and vice versa. To have him make a decision that big (IMO) then tell me after the fact in a "this is how it's going to be" kind of way would have been a deal breaker.
DH and I met in March and were engaged the following Christmas. We were dating exclusively by four months. If he had the thought that he might change cities and move in with an ex lover I would have absolutely expected to be consulted on the matter, and vice versa. To have him make a decision that big (IMO) then tell me after the fact in a "this is how it's going to be" kind of way would have been a deal breaker.
Fran, I know he's been your friend for many years, and I'm not saying he is or isn't an abusive jerk. But NONE of those things on your list have ANYTHING to do with whether someone is controlling and abusive in a relationship.
Domestic abusers come from every demographic, race, income level, aside from gender there is no factor that points to someone being more likely to be an abuser than any other person.
There are domestic abusers who are children's doctors, judges, construction workers, waitresses, who run soup kitchens, etc.
Take it from me. I've been in two doozies of abusive relationships. Both times I was extremely lucky to get away with my life.
First one? Was a super sweet guy. Everybody loved him. Everybody. My parents, everybody who met him. He was a great singer and did benefit concerts for a children's hospital. Wow. What a great guy.
In reality he was a rapist. I wasn't the only girl he victimized. And he tried to murder me by throwing me down a flight of concrete stairs when I tried leaving him.
Soo.. great guy?
Second? The one I married? He was so sweet. Bought me presents and treated me like a princess. At first. Then it became, as long as I went along with whatever he wanted me to do and didn't complain or object in any way. That came to a head when he wanted me to get rid of my dogs. My SERVICE dogs. Then he threatened to kill them, and assaulted me. The assault left me unconscious and with bruises in the shapes of hand prints on my body.
Guess what his job was at the time? He worked as a counselor in a center for undocumented youth rescued from human trafficking.
People who'd been their friends for YEARS were flabbergasted. One of them even admitted to doing it, in front of a judge. Yet his friends and family still refuse to believe he was ever capable, because the person he presented as himself to them is so very different than the person he is.
So believe me when I say jobs have NOTHING to do with whether someone is an abuser. Friendships and length of friendships have NOTHING to do with knowing if someone is an abuser. For many of those people, that dark side only comes out in intimate relationships and only when the intimacy level hits a certain depth.
I'm not saying this to say he's an abuser at. all. But it's something I wish people had warned me about. I would have been better prepared when I started dating and it would have saved me a lot of horror and grief. Abusers don't fit any stereotype. I was avoiding some imaginary dude in a wifebeater shirt surrounded by empty beers. Just. No. That's not how it works.
I agree with this too. Fran, you're really smart and perceptive and wonderful, but I think RTH is right.
Domestic abusers come from every demographic, race, income level, aside from gender there is no factor that points to someone being more likely to be an abuser than any other person.
There are domestic abusers who are children's doctors, judges, construction workers, waitresses, who run soup kitchens, etc.
Take it from me. I've been in two doozies of abusive relationships. Both times I was extremely lucky to get away with my life.
First one? Was a super sweet guy. Everybody loved him. Everybody. My parents, everybody who met him. He was a great singer and did benefit concerts for a children's hospital. Wow. What a great guy.
In reality he was a rapist. I wasn't the only girl he victimized. And he tried to murder me by throwing me down a flight of concrete stairs when I tried leaving him.
Soo.. great guy?
Second? The one I married? He was so sweet. Bought me presents and treated me like a princess. At first. Then it became, as long as I went along with whatever he wanted me to do and didn't complain or object in any way. That came to a head when he wanted me to get rid of my dogs. My SERVICE dogs. Then he threatened to kill them, and assaulted me. The assault left me unconscious and with bruises in the shapes of hand prints on my body.
Guess what his job was at the time? He worked as a counselor in a center for undocumented youth rescued from human trafficking.
People who'd been their friends for YEARS were flabbergasted. One of them even admitted to doing it, in front of a judge. Yet his friends and family still refuse to believe he was ever capable, because the person he presented as himself to them is so very different than the person he is.
So believe me when I say jobs have NOTHING to do with whether someone is an abuser. Friendships and length of friendships have NOTHING to do with knowing if someone is an abuser. For many of those people, that dark side only comes out in intimate relationships and only when the intimacy level hits a certain depth.
I'm not saying this to say he's an abuser at. all. But it's something I wish people had warned me about. I would have been better prepared when I started dating and it would have saved me a lot of horror and grief. Abusers don't fit any stereotype. I was avoiding some imaginary dude in a wifebeater shirt surrounded by empty beers. Just. No. That's not how it works.
I agree with this too. Fran, you're really smart and perceptive and wonderful, but I think RTH is right.
Nor is it the place of a significant other, who proclaims love, to inform their partner they have no input in a decision of housing, especially when the housing situation makes the other party uncomfortable.
Again, there is a happy-fair-healthy middle ground where neither party "holds the cards" alone.
I do think the message gets muddied though when people take it to an extreme.
Again, there is a happy-fair-healthy middle ground where neither party "holds the cards" alone.
I do think the message gets muddied though when people take it to an extreme.
Yeah, length of time has no bearing on the relationship. At 4 months I most definitely wouldve broken things off with DH if he had said "I'm doing this regardless of how you feel about it". Then again, at 4 months we had already been living together for 2-3 months and had gotten a puppy together (Marley )
This could work out very well, it might blow up. You never do know but there are some definite red flags IMO (And I know Fran isnt asking about this part of it, but I am sharing for discussion sake).
For me, its not even the worry about cheating as yeah, that can happen anywhere and in some ways its better to find out sooner than later. BUT, for me, a girl and roomate who is friends...eh, I think I would be more upset about the time they get to spend together just hanging out, doing stuff, etc....kind of "girlfriend" activities. I guess I think about my brother...he lives with a couple. He has never been with the girl, they are just very close friends. The husband couldnt care less, he lives with them and is great friends with my brother too. However, there have been issues with girls my brother has dated. They are a bit intimidated and not so happy about the situation (though they came after so a bit different). I mean, she comes to family functions, hangs out with him, does random things like grab lunch or go for a last minute hike with the dogs....things for him he is kind of lazy about inviting a girlfriend too or making the timing etc work..and why should he when his best friend is right there taking the role. Does that make any sense? That is what would bother me about it.
)This could work out very well, it might blow up. You never do know but there are some definite red flags IMO (And I know Fran isnt asking about this part of it, but I am sharing for discussion sake).
For me, its not even the worry about cheating as yeah, that can happen anywhere and in some ways its better to find out sooner than later. BUT, for me, a girl and roomate who is friends...eh, I think I would be more upset about the time they get to spend together just hanging out, doing stuff, etc....kind of "girlfriend" activities. I guess I think about my brother...he lives with a couple. He has never been with the girl, they are just very close friends. The husband couldnt care less, he lives with them and is great friends with my brother too. However, there have been issues with girls my brother has dated. They are a bit intimidated and not so happy about the situation (though they came after so a bit different). I mean, she comes to family functions, hangs out with him, does random things like grab lunch or go for a last minute hike with the dogs....things for him he is kind of lazy about inviting a girlfriend too or making the timing etc work..and why should he when his best friend is right there taking the role. Does that make any sense? That is what would bother me about it.