Limited VS. Full Registration for Pet Pups?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by HoundMusic, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. HoundMusic

    HoundMusic New Member

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    For the breeders here, I have a nagging question that's been bothering me. When you sell a pup to a pet home, do you give the owners AKC limited or full registration? What is your reasoning behind why you either sell on full/limited reg?

    Reason I ask is that my pet quality pups are sold on a reasonable spay/neuter contract, wherein my health guarantee is voided if the pup is not altered within the specified time period (currently within 8 months of sale). When I started breeding a few years ago, I was using alternate registries & UKC, neither of which offer an option for limited/non breeding papers. So it was very important to have soemthing as rock solid as possible to assure the pet pups would be altered, to not simply rely on limited registration papers.

    I am leaning towards doing all pups on full registration on the spay/neuter contract. I also require proof of the procedure, a Vet bill stating the dogs name/date/procedure or a note from the Vet. Thus far, I've had a very high rate of having the proof of altering being returned. So I am not even sure if Limited registration is either necessary or effective. If someone really wanted to breed a pup, they could easily register with UKC or the dozens of "pet" registries, none of which recognize AKC's limited papers. So if someone IS going to sneak behind my back and breed, wouldn't it be better off it they had the full AKC papers instead of going with an alternate registry?

    Just me pondering things & thinking out loud ... technically I've never before sold pet pups on papers that would limit registering of pups, so not really sure what to think on this one :dunno: Opinions are appreciated!!!
     
  2. Doberdogs

    Doberdogs Living on Doberman Drive

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    In today's society I believe the more protection the better. Limited registration just means that the dog can't be shown. Dogs can and do still participate in every other dog event.
    If a dog isn't for breeding, it makes sense not to send it out with full breeding rights (full registration). If someone breeds a dog that is not breeding quality, I do not think it is better they have full registration.
     
  3. SizzleDog

    SizzleDog Lord Cynical

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    IMO, all pet quality puppies should be sold on Limited Registration. Why does a pet owner need anything more than limited?

    Ilsa was a limited registration dog. No problems.
    Ronin and Kaylee are, obviously, full registration dogs.
    Ada is on full registration, but not by my choice. I would have rather had her on Limited.
     
  4. HoundMusic

    HoundMusic New Member

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    Oh, I agree a pet owner shouldn't require anything more than limited papers. All it does, however, is prevent a litter from being registered with AKC, but it doesn't stop someone from being able to breed and register with any other pet registry out there. Now, my buyers are checked & double checked, screened, interviewed. So that drastically reduces the risk that you are selling to someone who wants to breed behind your back. I get maybe 99% of the pet people to return proof of altering. My concern is that if someone does slip through the cracks and tries to breed behing my back, would it be better for them to have AKC papers or go with an alternate registry - APRI, ConKC, UABR, etc. and find not so great or outright genetic junk to breed to.

    Thanks for the suggestions tho! It's true, the more brick walls you put up the better ...
     
  5. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    For my breeds there is no such thing as limited registration.
     
  6. SizzleDog

    SizzleDog Lord Cynical

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    Very true. But as you know, a spay.neuter contract doesn't prevent it either, sadly.

    I don't necessarily agree with spay/neuter contracts (especially in my breed, when it's nice to see dogs fully mature before they're altered) but I understand they're a necessity for some.
     
  7. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    If you sell show quality dogs then they should have full registration .
     
  8. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    the breeder im going to has this guarentee.. it starts out limited but if you do certain things you can have it switched to full

    "All pups are sold with AKC Limited (non-breeding) Registration. We will gladly upgrade registration to Full (breeding) Registration once the dog has reached a minimum of 2 years of age and has passed basic tests of breeding suitability. This includes passing hip/elbow evaluations and working title or certification. The only exception to this policy is for pups sold outside the USA where Full AKC registration is required in order to obtain kennel club registration in the customer's home country."
     
  9. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Why? (gratuitous white next)
     
  10. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    but with full registration, iresponsible people can breed the dogs they brought from you to anyone they please that has AKC papers
     
  11. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    First of all , I knew everyone I sold to very well and they knew how I felt about breeding . None cared to breed and I did have in my contract that no dog would be bred before 2 years of age and COMPLETE health checks . I was proud of my pedigrees full of Champions and so were the new owners . Had any bred , they would have chosen the best mates .
     
  12. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    But that was back then.. (there was no limited reg back then was there?) This is now. Trust me contracts do little when it comes to dictating what people can and cannot do with the dog they have purchased from you. (in other words if they do breed there is nothing you can do)
     
  13. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Very true .... a long time ago .
     
  14. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    i have a friend who seriously contemplated breeding her golden but couldn't find anyone with a female that she considered good enough to breed him to who would have him because he was sold on a limited registration and the pups would not be able to be papered. so yes, it does stop some people.

    for better or for worse, akc registered is very much a "brand name" that would-be puppy buyers look for. if i were a breeder, i'd sell my pet quality pups under limited registration.
     
  15. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    thats true. "AKC" is something most puppy buyers look for, its like the designer tag on a purse. people love pedigrees
    people with limited reg realize that w/o akc papers.. they might have problems selling pups
     
  16. Val_theAussie

    Val_theAussie New Member

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    My dog's breeder had my dog registered with a limited AKC registration but after we picked our pup out, she asked us to please not neuter the dog, as she felt that he was show quality. I agreed to this, of course, but I guess she would have to change the paperwork if she wants him to be shown or bred for AKC?

    I've not ever shown a dog; but I've been to a couple of dog shows. I'm not sure if, at this point in time I can get into the "show" scene for Aussies.

    Has anyone gone from pet owner to being a show person.....with any success or otherwise?
     
  17. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    Right. Nothing will stop somebody who is determined to breed behind your back. Absolutely nothing.

    No. Why would you want your dogs and your line to be associated with a poor breeding? Why would it be "better" to allow them to breed dogs who, for at least one reason, are not breedworthy, and then to allow them to register with the AKC?
    Or, more simply, why should you make it that much easier to allow them to break your contract..?

    I would guess that, outside of the handful of people who are born into families that show/work their dogs/breed... MOST people go from being "just" a pet owner to showing. =>
     
  18. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    In my case , many of my return buyers had kids that wanted to show . You never know what's ahead !
     
  19. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    They do if you only let the pup on unlimited registration go on a co-ownership. ;)

    One breeder who's dogs I am seriously looking into does this. It's pretty awesome, because she puts in the contract that as co-owner she has to approve any breedings, has a list of required health tests that must be passed for both sire and dam before a breeding, and the mate being picked for the breeding must be approved by her. If the contract is violated, she has the right to regain full ownership. So, if someone did take one of her dogs and try to breed it willy nilly she could technically go and pick it up as it would become hers. Also, I think as the co-owner she has to sign off on papers for any litters.

    I don't know if someone can dual register a co-owned dog with another registry as being owned by one person, without the co-owners signature either.

    It seems like a pretty good system to me also, because nobody knows a breeder's lines better than they do, and so if you are planning to breed one of their dogs then they are the best person to go to for opinions when looking for a suitable match.
     
  20. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    In AKC, does Limited Registration mean they must be s/n by a certain age?
     

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