K9 European Protection Program

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Whitedobelover

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#1
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Okay So i recieved an email from the guy that is on this site... i inquired to see what would be said and see what kind of people are out there... and he replied dobermans arent for protection oh wait ill post the email... hehehe

~~~~~~I am afraid that your dog will not protect you. With the Doberman it is very difficult to get a good one with a normal brain. This type of dogs is not just anymore as a protection dog. They are very beautiful but I am sorry not good in protection work. Maybe from 100 Dobermans 2 will be good.


this isnt very good and i would like well to say that dobermans in my opinion are better than germans...no offense german girl :D hehehe... but for protection i believe theya re better... hehehe
 
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Twin 2.0
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I think I'd believe the guy who has had almost 30 years experience in training protection dogs...any dog will react to an immediate threat, but as for disciplined protection...I think there's a reason the Belgian group and GSD's are so popular.
 
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doberkim

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its just because it takes a better trainer to train a doberman. :) (joke here)

personally, i think dobes have more intuitive protective natures than most other breeds.

in terms of mals, i think of them as the BC of the bite sport world - if you want to win in agility, get a BC. if you want a top obedience dog, get a golden. if you want a podium dog in bite sport, get a mal. highly trainable dogs, each one of them.

however, dobes not being podium dogs (OFTEN - though please note, agir and butch are consistently placing higher than EVERY other breed in the trials they go to, including DVG nationals!) - does not mean they are bad at the job. they work much differently than a GSD or a mal, and the sport was not designed for them (as it was for GSDs).

we all have our favorite breeds - however, saying a doberman will not protect you is a serious lie - in 100 dogs, i think at least 75-80% of them WILL protect you when push comes to shove, without ANY training, when the threat is an actual threat in real life.

and always remember, while its fun, amazing to watch, etc - schutzhund is still a sport. your opinion of a breed will be formed by the ones you see - and if all you see is poorly bred, poor temperaments and horrible structure, you will think that of the dobe breed. each breed has its good and bad representatives.

not being the top dog in the field doesnt make a breed bad at it - one of the best things regarding dobermans, IMO, is that they ARE such versatile dogs and easily go from bite sport to agility, obedience to tracking, therapy work to family pets, and can do SO MANY jobs and do them well! i think dobermans are just those "do it all" kinda breeds.
 
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yuckaduck

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Alex has been training for a long time and I would trust his opinion. I think it is not necessarily that if a person on the street attack you then ya your dog would react. For personal protection training, they are not the best. You also have to consider that there are some really bad breeders out there and that affects opinions too.
 
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AmberwayGSD

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Sorry but I disagree with him here.I sold my Male Trained Doberman as a Police dog.He is doing wonderful.German Shepherds are a little easier to train for Protection though.Dobermans and Rotties are amazing Protection Dogs.My Dobes wouldnt let strange people in our home yard.If strange people tried to start crap on our walks they would be met by Guard Dobes.
 
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doberkim

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yuckaduck said:
Alex has been training for a long time and I would trust his opinion. I think it is not necessarily that if a person on the street attack you then ya your dog would react. For personal protection training, they are not the best. You also have to consider that there are some really bad breeders out there and that affects opinions too.
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well, there are a lot of trainers out there with significant breed bias who simply wont train some dogs - many trainers cannot train dobermans and therefore will not allow them into the club. i mean, look at the supreme of all idiots, frawley, who doesnt like it if its isnt sporting a longer coat, long tail, and pointy ears and comes in sable.

being unable to train a dog does not make it unsuitable for the job.

i would also beg to differ - while many dogs will defend an owner, the doberman was the breed specifically designed to protect their OWNER and to take down a person. many dogs will NOT physically protect their owners when threatened on the streets - heck, i can think of quite a few protection trained GSDs that ran when faced with a civil threat :)

i know of a woman who lives in NY, who owns strictly show line dobermans - doesnt compete, simply has one doberman at a time that is purely her pet - the lines are primarily show dobes, though they of course go back to tess's vom arhtal lines. her doberman - a male that had never been working in bite sport, played at the park every day and enjoyed the pampered life of a pet, sent someone to the hospital when they tried to mug her while she was walking the streets at night. this doberman had no training to bite or protect -he took the mugger down and physically did not let go until the police arrived. THAT is what a doberman was bred to do. he never bit anyone prior to that, and never bit anyone after.


saying it is hard to get a dobe with a "normal brain" is just a little ridiculous. it just seems like its harder and harder to find a good trainer with a "normal brain" :)
 
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I'm wondering where the normal brain comment came from myself. Maybe it's because he's European and they train differently? I really don't know, I know very little about Dobes and next to nothing about Schutzhund except what I see on the Discovery Channel.
 
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oriondw

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Zoom said:
I'm wondering where the normal brain comment came from myself. Maybe it's because he's European and they train differently? I really don't know, I know very little about Dobes and next to nothing about Schutzhund except what I see on the Discovery Channel.
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Americans GSD's, Dobes and Rotts are VERY different from Their European Counterparts.
 
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Twin 2.0
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I knew that; at least conformation wise, and that much of the "hardness" has been bred out for Am. show rings. Which is why I'm looking at German line Rotties for my next dog. They just come across as a bit more solid.

So, does most of Europe think Americans all have wussy dogs then? Just out of curiosity.
 
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oriondw

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Zoom said:
I knew that; at least conformation wise, and that much of the "hardness" has been bred out for Am. show rings. Which is why I'm looking at German line Rotties for my next dog. They just come across as a bit more solid.

So, does most of Europe think Americans all have wussy dogs then? Just out of curiosity.
Click to expand...

Well, its not like its not true...
 
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doberkim

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someone who works KNPV mals is never going to be happy with a dobe :) it has nothing to do with a dog being unable to protect - and schutzhund is like playing with your stuffed animals if you are looking at KNPV work. not being the best at a job, does not make a dog the worst.

at that level, it has nothing to do with US v. euro -- KNPV takes things to a level that most dogs, PERIOD - cant handle (forget what breed).
 
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yuckaduck

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Zoom said:
I'm wondering where the normal brain comment came from myself. Maybe it's because he's European and they train differently? I really don't know, I know very little about Dobes and next to nothing about Schutzhund except what I see on the Discovery Channel.
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Schutzhund is nothing more then a sport. It is not protection training and it is not police training. It is a sport, a dog trained to chase a big shew toy and hold on to it. It is mearly a sport nothing more. Yes the dogs are awesome in what they can do not belittleing that but it is only a sport. To protection train is something totally different. Dobes were originaly bred to protect their master but with the byb's and the down right bad breeders the temperment of the dobes has changed significantly. I think that is where the normal brains comment came from. With such poor breeding practices, it is hard to find normal brained dobes. That does not mean that all dobes are bad either. I know Lisa speaks the truth about her male dobe, it is a working police dog and it has a normal brain. WHy she was a responsible breeder not a byb.
 
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doberkim

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what lines was he from and what lines did you breed? what was your kennel name? just curious to know if ive heard of you :)
 
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Whitedobelover

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a brain is a brain it doesnt change from america to europe no matter how you do it. lol unless we go in and start cutting parts of the brains out.... so please elaborate how a brain could change here let me ask kim she is in vet school can a dogs brain change or no....... i seriously doubt it... but you would know before anyone.
 
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Whitedobelover

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so as i wanted your opinion on this kim so as you can set this straight because i knew you and german and I have all had dobermans most of our lives if im not mistaken... then how can one person say this.. lol he trains GSDs but I have a lady here in Everett who has trained only GSDs also and thinks dobermans are great at Schutzhund... and she is looking forward to Prince being apart of her class... and she wants to work personally with him because he is a doberman and she loves working with them and has said they are easier to her to work with than GSDs... but that was her opinion
 
blue

blue

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Whitedobelover said:
a brain is a brain it doesnt change from america to europe no matter how you do it. lol unless we go in and start cutting parts of the brains out.... so please elaborate how a brain could change here let me ask kim she is in vet school can a dogs brain change or no....... i seriously doubt it... but you would know before anyone.
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Im going out on a limb here......

If you breed any animal humans included in a really inapropriate manner, incest, BYB you are going to wind up with mental defficiencies.
 
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#20
blue said:
Im going out on a limb here......

If you breed any animal humans included in a really inapropriate manner, incest, BYB you are going to wind up with mental defficiencies.
Click to expand...
You beat me to it.
 
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