Jumping style

Discussion in 'Agility and Dog Sports' started by Laurelin, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Is the class separation/numbers the same in AKC generally? We're going to be playing AKC for the most part. I live in the middle of nowhere and most trials are AKC or... AKC. lol
     
  2. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    Haha, so true! BC people so take for granted their dogs' ability to turn 90 degrees mid air.

    I'm actually at a seminar this weekend, and luckily the presenter has been really good. He only asked once about her weird jumping.

    Here is an example of weird Belgian jumping from today. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31Ykqgm-PeA
     
  3. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    Same boat here. Let's see if I can get this to turn out correctly...there are probably easier ways of doing this but w/e lol

    Height ---- AKC ---- USDAA
    8" ------- <=11" ----- X
    12" ------ <=14" ---- <=12"
    16" ------ <=18" ---- <=16"
    20" ------ <=22" ----- X
    22" -------- X ------ <=21"
    24" ------ All Else ---- X
    26" -------- X ------ All Else

    Then FCI/worlds just has 14/18/26 and that's it.



    Poor Pan! That is a tough jump distance though...to bounce or force a stride...she's a good girl :) What will be her competition jump height, do you know?
     
  4. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    26"! I have her at 16" for the seminar since she's still learning a lot of the handling moves.

    I've run very few sequences at 26" a few months ago, and am just starting to introduce 22" and 26" in jump grids.

    ETA: That line was very awkward. Some of the BCs put in a stride and ended up knocking the second bar.
     
  5. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    SO STINKING TRUE!


    /whinewhinewhine
     
  6. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Oh and Pan looks fantastic, eating dirt and all.
     
  7. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    :D The poor girl had dirt crammed in her face. I have to give her credit for continuing to run with eyes, nose, and mouth full of dirt.
     
  8. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Dog size advantages also depend on venue. If you do a venue that places value on gamblers.. that is MUCH easier with a bigger dog. A big dog might only have to take a couple strides to be out 20 feet away from you. A little dog has quite a few to get confused, change their mind lol.

    Though I don't notice a huge difference running Dekka than I did Bounce in some ways. Bounce was a bigger dog with a bigger stride but she was so focused on me.

    Dekka typically runs like a bat out of hell and we often have issues with her not collecting. A small dog running flat out does not make weaves. Well she makes the entries but skips poles as she is going so fast. We also have been known not to wait for the teeter but use it like a launch ramp. She has to stop and WAIT for it to come down. Something a big dog never has to do. And who ever said about little dogs and contacts. My just over 11 inch dog has missed ALL of the 9 feet of the down side of the A frame when she was new and excited at a trial.

    Yes typically a big dog will make courses more technical. But that doesn't make small dogs easier. At least not in AAC (similar to USDAA) its pretty balanced as to Qs. Must be how its weighted.

    LOL and jumping style is often very individualistic Exibit A:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    =D =D =D =D =D =D


    As far as "real" agility dogs go, I've never heard negative things about shelties specifically, but there is definitely a BORDER COLLIES ARE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS around. I sadly know many people who started agility with their pet of whatever breed, got The Bug, and decided they HAD to have a border collie for their next dog in order to be competitive. Trouble is they apparently forget how much time of your lives together you spend NOT competing with your dog, and often they end up waaaaay over their heads with a dog that is not the right match for them. I don't seem to see this happen with shelties... it seems usually the singular "real" agility breed is the BC.

    In AKC, most shelties do run either 12" or 16". The smaller BCs run 16" in AKC, and that is why people like smaller shelties who can run 12"; it takes the BCs out of the competition. A few VERY small shelties are in the 8" and I know of some people who are purposely breeding for teeny tiny shelties (ugh) to get into the 8" where your competition is fairly limited, just based on the numbers game. 8" is typically a relatively small class entries-wise. It's kinda gross.

    That said Pay is going to be a 16" and so will Pepper should she ever trial, and I'm not worried about it. Placings don't matter anymore since the multipliers for points went away, so I don't care. Besides, Auggie's brother has knocked out many firsts in 16", even down in Louisville with a bajillion BCs and many other fast shelties present. Have a good dog, train well, run well, and you will do well.
     
  10. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    FCI's shortest height is 14?! That's crazy.

    Going through the other posts. I'm glad I started this thread. It's been fun. :D
     
  11. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    We will see, but I am almost betting on it. lol

    That's really... odd. Considering the worlds teams are usually really sheltie heavy. This year there's 4 BCs and 7 shelties.

    Yeah that's... ugh. They should just get papillons if they want to stay under 11". I've seen a few of these teeny shelties around at shows lately. Are there very many BCs that run 16"? That's really tiny.

    Easier said than done, but that is the goal. :D
     
  12. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    On worlds they just have a 'large dog team', a 'medium dog team', and a 'small dog team'. What jump heights are those? Just curious.

    ETA: I need to add I love the picture of Dekka flying. And poor Pan eating dirt there. She's fast though!
     
  13. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    I don't want to get too much into the politics of it (I hate agility politics), but there are BCs running 16" who have no business being in that height class. They get favourable measurements from VMOs who are biased towards BCs, people know who these VMOs are and will seek them out so they can get their dog into a height class they shouldn't really be in to make it easier on the dog. I'm not even talking about dogs who are borderline, I'm talking dogs inches off. Some of these VMOs also measure any non-BC high... so the BC gets WAY lower than it should be and any other breeds gets way HIGHER than it should be...

    There are some actual petite BCs who truly belong in the 16" class, don't get me wrong, but there's also fudging going on. A few years ago at a regionals or nationals, I forget which, the judges announced that ALL dogs would be measured before they ran. There were BC people who immediately packed up and left, because they knew they would be caught running far lower than they should have been. They didn't even wait for the measurement to see if they could squeak by... they just up and left.
    Funny enough, IIRC, the announcement was actually due to hubbub over Aussies, NOT BCs. =P This was when people were pissed about "mini Aussies" registered as Aussies and running 12".
     
  14. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    26, 18, and 14 respectively.

    Re: "real agility dogs" -- And at least around here Shelties are "real" agility dogs. We have some world team Shelties (and BCs) in the area including dogs who medalled, U.S. National finalists, etc. So at least around here Shelties are not a "fall-back" breed but are highly respected in their own right.

    But really any team who tears it up gets respect. There's a gal with a Beagle who is just super...some top Weim and Dobes...a little spaniel who runs like she's on fire...couple Goldens that are just rock solid and routinely outrun the BCs...

    And any team who runs as a team and has fun gets cheered. One of the biggest cheers I've heard recently was for a team who has been struggling epically to overcome some focus issues...they finally had a clean run recently and you would have though someone just earned a MACH...place went wild lol
     
  15. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    It's not just BCs though...it's just the people who've been in it long enough to get by with this stuff often have BCs...I can think of several "off breed" folks who've been in it a long time who have ummm questionable measurements. It's always interesting when we're first in for the 24's so I'm at the gate with a bunch of 20s (not counting Preferred dogs) and my FCR's the same height or shorter than a lot of them...granted her measurement is also questionable (but high...she was measured as an overly excited bouncy pup, imagine that...) but I don't think she's any shorter than 22" even...which is the tallest allowed 20" jumping height...
     
  16. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    I'm really kind of struggling with this with Steve at the moment, tbh. He's coming back from his latest groin pull. Right now he's jumping 20". I don't like how he jumps at 20", which tends to be with his head up, flat, and landing almost four-footed. Not always, but sometimes. He'd jump 20" in AKC. He'd jump 20" in CPE. He'd jump 26" in USDAA.

    Rehab vet and I have talked a little bit about jump height, but I don't think she's particularly knowledgeable about agility and she doesn't see many sport dogs. And I just don't know what to do with him.

    Is his flat jumping style something that's my fault? Maybe. Is it something I can fix? I dunno. We've done a lot of one jump rewarding at the base of the jump to encourage a nice jumping position work since I started him jumping. Probably flyball ruined him *eyeroll*
     
  17. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    This thought just warms me. I can imagine the excitement the team feels and it's wonderful to hear of the support.
     
  18. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    How does the measurement work? I know back when we showed confo I have seen them pull out the stick to measure a big looking dog quite often. There was one male pap that showed around here and he was just under the DQ of 12 inches. They ALWAYS measured him. Don't do that at agility?

    It seems really shady that you could get away with that kind of thing. although, my dogs won't have to worry about measuring down. They're in the smallest height anyways.
     
  19. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    For AKC they have VMOs -- Volunteer Measuring Officials. They get trained and measure under the guidance of another VMO for a while before getting certified.

    When your dog is at least 15 months they can get measured. If they are less than 2 years old they'll get a temp card and have to be remeasured when they are 2. If over two, you'll get a permanent card.

    Dog has to get measured by two VMOs. If those two measurements put the dog in two different height categories, a VMO measurement is required to determine the dog's jump height.

    If the dog measured into the highest jump height class, they only need one measurement and do not have to be remeasured at 2...they'll get a permanent card right away.

    Once they have the permanent card, they are good to go for their career pretty much. A judge or VMO can at any time require them to get remeasured if they think the dog is in the wrong height class but as far as I know that rarely happens. They can also, as in Beanie's example, decide randomly that all the dogs at a show WILL be remeasured. I've never personally experienced that.

    CPE is similar except that I think any judge can measure. My information may be outdated though.
     
  20. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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