Jack Russell Terrier kills 6-week-old infant

Discussion in 'Dog News and Articles' started by Miakoda, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    Leaving an infant unattended with a high-drive dog is just as bad as leaving them alone in a bathtub with a hair dryer on the ledge. :rolleyes:

    It also pains me to see this turn into a breed argument. :( The real tragedy here is the needless death of a baby, not what kind of dog inflicted the damage.
     
  2. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    :( I need to go hug my baby now.
     
  3. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    Oh no. I'm not meaning to be offensive. At all. You shouldn't leave any infant alone with a dog. Ever. Whether its a pug, pekingnese, a pit bull, or a poodle. Same with cats for that matter. But I'm just stunned that someone would leave an infant alone with a terrier . . . they are BRED to kill small, helpless, squeaking things. Its sort of . . . that was spectacularly stupid. It was beyond the normal stupidity of leaving a baby with a dog . . . it was leaving a baby alone with a dog that had been bred to kill things resembling babies and that, from my experience, will go to spectacular lengths to satisfy their prey drive. I don't think JRTs (or pit bulls) are "dangerous dogs" but there are certain breeds where extreme caution should be taken in certain situations.

    My parents actually rehomed a terrier after my mother came pregant and the terrier had shown that he would do ANYTHING to get to the cats. That an he bit Mom when she tried to stop him. She told my father to find another home for the dog (he did). She was not going to trust that terrier (I think it was a JRT, but of course, I wasn't there) with her baby in the house. (Notably, the other house dogs were not exiled, just shut out of the nursery.) I don't think all people with terriers should rehome them at pregancy, of course. But they should be very, very aware of what their little dog is . . . and take precautions . . . more extreme precautions than you might with another breed.

    Now all that is just unfair to the breed. They are difficult little dogs, but they can be real gems. But if you are going to get a breed . . . for the love of god learn something about it! Know what you are getting into! Read a book!

    Yes, and that was really my point. But I have never met a terrier that wasn't high drive. I've met some more so than others, but never one of the common terrier breeds that I would leave alone with ANYTHING else alive unless it was twice its size and I'd been even more careful with children since terriers don't tend to put up with people yanking on their extremities. Any high drive dog would be dangerous, but virtually all terriers are high drive.
     
  4. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    my point was that so many byb and pet stores will assure people that the dogs they sell are fine. They see 'Eddie' on fraiser, or Wishbone, and see a 'uberperfect' unrealistic dog. The media seems to tell people 'only bad dogs' bite people.

    I get so many clients who say, "my dog growled at me the other day, I thought he was a good dog?" And are so shocked.

    We are taught as children that drowning is a danger, we are taught that having a plugged in appliance by the tub is dangerous. But really we must remember we here at Chaz are the 'experts' compared to the general public. I have friends at school, even professors who are smart people, but who have the craziest ideas about how a dog's mind work. These people anthropomorphize dogs worse than a Disney film.

    So while it is obvious to us, its not obvious to many people. And this makes it scarier to me than anything else. It is the public's idea that only 'bad dogs' or dogs with something wrong with them do things like this, that fuel breed bans. Yes the people SHOULD know these things. But as we know common sense is all but common. So who is educating them?

    I will tell you.. groups like PETA-through the HSUS, the media who loves a 'good story' the polititians who jump on the BSL bandwagon. They all want you to believe only bad dogs do bad things. So of course the general public looks down at fluffy and says, my dog is a good dog, therefore I don't have to worry about her harming anyone.
     
  5. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    I left my two kiddos asleep on the bed plenty as a parent...in the middle before they can turn over...I am not always in the room staring at them while they sleep either.

    Perhaps the dog was simply "at large" in the home...a housedog...and the door was open...my dogs would stay with me most times because I am more interesting. But I can see this scenario when you trust your dog...or your cats for that matter.

    The same thing could have happened with a playpen in the den...a swing in the living room. When babies are sleeping, you let them sleep and you get things done you need to...you don't stare at them 100% of the time. IF you have a housedog that is in the home...the dog has access to the baby many times during the course of the day. But most dogs will stay with their owners,....perhaps this one didn't.

    They should have closed the door...but perhaps they did not have a monitor to be able to hear the baby's cries upon waking.

    Many things unanswered. But I just didn't get that the dog was sealed inside a room and left alone....by the parents here.

    eta: I suppose that when one has a baby one could simply put the dog outside and leave it there full time, too, or just get rid of it....wonder how that would go over.
     
  6. angelzeus

    angelzeus New Member

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    no dog of any breed should be left alone or allowed to roam a house were there are infants that and animal could find with out supervision it's just horrible
     
  7. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    My family always had dog/baby gates up when I was tiny . . . they couldn't actually close the doors, there was no air conditioning in the house. They were big, well made gates . . . and otherwise the two dogs in the house (a standard poodle and a corgi) roamed freely . . . just not where I was (I also had a traditional crib with high sides). So its not like you have to close up your house to keep the dog out of somewhere, at least, not unless you have a climber . . . and once the kid starts crawling, I'd say baby gates are a necessity. Its not HARD to keep the dog out, in most cases. The problem, I suppose, is knowing you have to keep the dog out. ( I have no idea what they did about the cats . . . probably nothing, but if I remember, I'll ask)

    But Dekka is right. We're fast to judge because we know better, and, most importantly, we know that we SHOULD know . . . that we (and any one else who gets a dog) should learn enough about dog behavior, and their breed in particular, that they will know about dangers like this. The shame is that when this does happen, everyone tends to blame the dog . . . or call it an 'accident.' It WAS an accident, and a mistake on the part of the dog . . .but its annoying when its an accident from a small dog and a vicious attack from a large one . . . actually, both large and small dogs likely made the same, understandable mistake . . . they didn't recognize the baby as a human 'pup.' Its such an avoidable tragedy . . . for everyone involved. :(
     
  8. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    we did the "tent" thing on the crib for cats. One could always wear the baby lol. I know some folks do that.
     
  9. mjb

    mjb New Member

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    Our cat slept in the crib with our daughter. In fact, our cat slept in the crib before the baby was born! She just joined him.

    Our baby didn't sleep in the crib as a newborn, though. She slept in a cradle by our bed. She was probably 6 months old before she moved into her own room.

    We didn't have a dog with a baby until the 3rd one came along. The dog was a Pug, and I don't remember how the dog and baby interacted or if the dog even noticed the baby. No problems, though. I would definitely have remembered that!!
     
  10. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Dekka, when did the CC and RR change the policy on taking in jrts that bit?
    Just a few short years ago, taking dogs in that had a history of bitting wasn't allowed because of the law suits.
     
  11. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Most of the JRTs that I fostered had bit people. But is was deemed due to stupid human error and not 'aggressive dog' I don't know. I know they did before. Maybe not when you were doing it, but before that?
    Many JRTs that are coming in have bit people. Most are non puncture type 'bites' The one that I had to fight to have put down..had mangled the guys hand. (and was really quite a scary dog in many many ways...though I got along with him) I guess the law suit thing isn't as relevant anymore as insurance companies (and lawyers) are realizing that ANY dog can bite. And that people lie.
     
  12. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Yes years ago they did take in dogs with bitting issues or aggression, then the club and the rescue were sued because of a dog that was placed. It bit a neighbor kid or a visiting kid.
    After that the insurance company for the club refused to insure unless the policy changed.
    Getting insurance for a club or school now is even more difficult than what it was.
     
  13. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Must have changed. Not an issue now that i know of.
     
  14. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    Over 45 breeds are reposnsible for human fatalities. This list includes both Yorkies and Poms.

    No on said you must sit and hold or sit and stare at your child 100% of the time. But honestly, keeping your dogs away from your child/children when you are not physically close by to supervise is very simple and very easy. And it's called "responsibility."

    I don't buy the "most dogs will stay by their owners, but some won't" excuse b/c if that dog won't then when it's time for me to do something & I need to leave my sleeping or playing child in the other room even if I can still see him, I grab the dog's collar and place the dog in a kennel, outside in the backyard, or attach a leash to the collar & have the dog come with me. My dogs don't make the rules in my house as to what they want to do when they want to do it and where they want to do it. They do what I have them do.

    My 1st son is only 18 months old, but I can honestly swear to you that he has NEVER been left alone with one of our dogs, or anyone else's dog for that matter, for even 20 seconds. Yes it might take a little extra effort on my behalf, but better that extra effort than have to possibly bury my child.
     
  15. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    I agree, its a responsiblity to our children. It's no different that ensuring that the child doesn't drown in a buck or the toliet. All the what of, should of's and could of's doesn't stack up against preventive. And yes there are dogs that may never harm an infant or child.............but why take the chance?
     
  16. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    There are plenty of dogs that wouldn't. Most of them, once they understood what the baby was. Here's the problem . . . the dog has to understand what the baby is (pup of the pack) and the parents/owners need to evaluate the dog's prey drive and whether it has jealousy issues. Most people are in no way qaulified to do that . . . and even if they were, by the time you were really certain it was safe, the kid would be a toddler, and you'd have an entirely different set of kid-dog problem possibilities.

    I would hardly want people to think their dogs are murderers . . .or to panic everytime the dog gets near the child. But common sense, and not leaving them alone is in order . . . its really just like you shouldn't leave a hyperative kindergardener alone with your baby either!
     
  17. Squishy22

    Squishy22 Guest

    Another example of an owner who thinks their little dog couldn't or wouldn't do such a thing. Owners trust their little dogs way too much just because the dog is small and loving to its owner. People dont realize that even small dogs can become VERY jealous and have ZERO tolerance for an infant. Dogs can see babies as competition for food and attention.

    Sickening how their pit bulls were mentioned. I was at my aunts house with Reggin and my moms pug who has tried to attack my baby. It was brought up that her pug growls at the baby and then my aunt points at reggin and says.... "You need to be careful, THOSE kinds of dogs turn on people". I was PISSED. I need to be EXTRA careful with reggy just because he is a pit, but my moms pug is harmless even through she has already tried bitting my baby. :rolleyes:
     
  18. Chikadee77

    Chikadee77 New Member

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    That's just horrible! I agree, it's not the breed, its the owners.

    I would NEVER trust any of my dogs alone with my little neice and nephew and one of my dogs is a service dog and LOVES kids! Especially those kids! But it's just common sense to not leave any dog alone with children, no matter what.
     
  19. MelissaCato

    MelissaCato ĜȫƝ ₩īĿÐ

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    ... yes I know. It's sad. I bet the owners and or parents blame the breed, instead of themselves. :rolleyes: Liberal Bastards. Although this article has a change of context that is a good thing. America is waking up. Thank God.

    Check this out ... http://catousa.messageforums.net/re...ts-intruder-amp-gets-court-marshia_t1844.html

    Amen.
     
  20. ACooper

    ACooper Moderator

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    Absolutely right Mia.

    Shoot, when my last baby was little we had NO dog in the house but I still loaded him into his little seat and took him in the bathroom with me to shower/bath or whatever!

    There are MANY things in that article that trouble me.

    First of all, this baby is 6 weeks old and has no crib? Or bassenet or ANYWHERE safe to sleep? And this baby has two older brothers, 1 & 3.........something is just off with that.

    It bothers me to think they believed this dog to be completely safe and yet it ATTACKED a sleeping baby that was obviously NOT able to do the dog harm?? It just doesn't sound right somewhere along the lines.....a dog that has been safe with kids and suddenly just attacks one in it's sleep? WEIRD!

    I don't know..........none of it really adds up to me. But I am really sad for that poor child :(
     

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