It's Yer Choice

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by MafiaPrincess, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    It was suggested to me eons ago.. We've done mild beginning steps and I've always stopped there.

    The cocker kids are easy at home. Can be pills if someone's at the door.. but day in day out easy going. Arson is well not..... He's super needy and a shadow and that is fine. He could use impulse control as he is driving me batty.

    So have you done it till your dog knows the game to a tee? How was your dog before and then now?

    When agility competitors suggested it, I was slightly turned off they made it sound like robot behaviour kind of.. Never picking up the dropped food on the floor unless okayed to do so.

    Arson needs help though. He's not so easy going.. I like him, but he's driving me mildly nuts... But all my google fu.. I see wonderful squee effects enough, lots of how to vids. Still can't quite wrap my head around the levels of leaving treats alone = better life choices and less spastic pup..
     
  2. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I haven't done an insane amount of It's Yer Choice with Gusto - enough that if I specifically tell him to leave something I drop, he'll back off. But like you, I couldn't quite get it into my head that I wanted him to leave *everything* alone.

    What made an unbelievable difference in the same way for us was Crate Games. I used to roll my eyes at anyone who suggested it was the answer to life, the universe and everything. But it was remarkable. I've seen him in multiple situations (learning the table, learning not to bolt out the house/car door, learning his startline stays) where I can practically see his head spinning as he says "Oh - this game! I know this game!".

    It's Yer Choice may have helped just as much if I'd been more committed to it.
     
  3. Barbara!

    Barbara! New Member

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    I'm commenting to keep track of this thread. Just had a really successful second session with Baloo.
     
  4. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    I've used it....my dogs never even seem to care about food all that much anyway, though.

    I didn't notice a difference using with Milo or Edna, but I did with Tom. He was much more focused on me, and learned that looking to me would get him a reward. I'm not sure how much it helped with impulse control, but it definitely helped our relationship and training as a whole.
     
  5. FG167

    FG167 New Member

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    I had a people and dog aggressive DS and noticed a HUGE difference in him with this sort of training.

    Madix:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    I raised Squash with it. We started literally the day after he came home (11 weeks old) and I still practice it often. I know I joke about how crazy he can be, but really he's sort of a gentle soul... still, I think it has really helped mold him into a really fantastic dog. I won't say he's perfect, but I shudder to think about what he would be like if he hadn't learned any impulse control, because his natural tendency is to be a polar bear in a china shop.

    Maisy and Pip I have used it mostly as an attention getting game and to focus and bring them down when they are overstimulated. Maisy was a really hard dog for me when she was younger and we were just starting to go to classes together, she's extremely distractible and completely obsessed with and somewhat reactive to new dogs... like, starting a new class with a new group, or if a new student joins a class. It really saved my bacon, we would practice almost constantly at first when we weren't doing anything else and sometimes even when we were supposed to be doing something else. That behavior definitely improved over time as a result.

    I won't say they're perfect, but I don't have to worry about the mad scramble for a dropped morsel of food and they don't generally mug anyone for treats. I haven't really practiced up to the "open container of treats" level but I have worked up to dropping food.

    I really strongly believe that it helps way beyond the specific exercise, though, and just translates into easier training of all kinds. I did not work nearly as hard on things like recall and heeling with Squash as I have with the others, yet he's far, far better and more solid at those types of skills than they are.

    I show all my new puppy appointments how to play it, they look at me like I'm a sorcerer when their puppy "gets it" after only a few tries. You can just see the light bulb go on.


    Can you tell I've drunk the Kool-Aid? :D

    ETA: One thing I really wish I'd done more of, though, was practicing with things other than food. I'm trying to catch up with that, but it's a bit slow.
     
  7. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    Aww pic is amusing FG. Arson has no aggression that I've seen. I simply need better self control. Less jumping to reach my face and poke out my eye in the meantime...

    LOL Sassafras.. You were koolaided ;)

    So.. you wish you'd done it with stuff other than food? How does that work? I've really only seen people doing it with food. In hand, on floor, in treat containers on floor, doing tricks through treats.. and that is about it..

    But then I hear at trials how it is god. Like the lady I like with a BC who can leave her dog parked in her chair and go do whatever and come back. She says that's part of it's yer choice- that is why he does that.

    I say it' part training part being a BC ;) I can't quite make the link to why playing with food = the further behaviours which is why I never did much with it..
     
  8. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Well I think you could do it with almost anything, as long as you can prevent them from getting what they want. Like, you couldn't enclose a tennis ball in or under your hand, but you could certainly drop it on the floor and block their access to it under a box or something... or have them leashed and just not release them until they give up trying to get to it. Just a segue into "leave it" I guess.
     
  9. Sekah

    Sekah The Monster.

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    I'm a big Its Yer Choice fan.

    [​IMG]

    As mentioned above, it's not all about food. We use food as an easily accessible gateway into building on a dog's self control without the need to babysit each and every choice they make. And as we all know, self control is the keystone of any and all dog training.

    We use it with food because food is a) distracting and b) something the dog wants. You can use anything in food's stead once you've laid the groundwork in the game. The basic behaviour you're looking for is the dog forgoing something that it wants, and you offering something better for making the right choice. It can be a squirrel, or saying hello to another dog, or holding a stay around distractions, etc. Start with things like food, toys, access to favourite people, attention around low level distractions. The key is to not moderate your dog's behaviour or give any cues whatsoever. Your only job is controlling the reinforcement the dog receives from its choice. Correct choices get loads of reinforcement. Incorrect choices get the potential reinforcement taken away (food gets covered, toy goes away...).
     
  10. Eleonora

    Eleonora New Member

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    My friend has found this thread. She has questions about impulse control. She thought that they might fit in this thread. My friend has seen some videos about this. This is how it's done in them: first the trainer puts a treat somewhere and says: leave it and after a little time says for example: Ok, get it.

    However, my friend was told to teach leave it so that the reward is given by hand to the dog. It's different than the one the dog leaves. In other words, she was told to teach it with two treats.

    My friend already knows how to teach leave it (where the dog doesn't get that same treat) and she has sometimes tried to teach it. She has seen a tutorial about that other behavior (where the dog
    does get that same treat):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSqGMs-eFB8

    My friend's questions relates mostly to naming the behaviors. Those questions are:

    1) How does my friend teach leave it so that Lotta doesn't think that she doesn't have permission to take the treat?

    2) *Since my friend was told to teach leave it differently, should she teach "leave it" with two cues? If so, how does it work in practise?

    OR

    3) Can she teach leave it somehow with the same cue? If so, how does Lotta know which behavior is expected from her?
     
  11. Taqroy

    Taqroy Active Member

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    It's Yer Choice is not leave it.

    Leave it = give your dog a cue to leave an object that they are interested in (dead squirrel, pile of poop, treat on the ground, other dog) and your dog backs off, then you reward them.

    IYC = your dog makes a deliberate choice to not do something WITHOUT a cue (not run away, not chase a squirrel, not snatch something off the coffee table).

    Does that make sense?

    That said, when I teach leave it I never give the dog the treat that they've left - I always reward with a different treat. Think about the way you'll use leave it in real life - if you ask your dog to leave a dead fish would you ever, at any point, ask them to take it afterwards?

    Based on what you've said in other threads I think it would be very beneficial for your friend to focus on one behavior (It's Yer Choice would be a great start because it teaches impulse control) and get really good at it before moving on.
     
  12. Eleonora

    Eleonora New Member

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    My friend was only telling what she had seen and how those other people had named it. So, the question is now: Why did they call it leave it although it's a different behavior?:
    Based on your comment my friend herself should teach Lotta two different behaviors and start with this:

    My friend has already tried what was done in that tutorial. The first stage is that the owner is holding the treats in her hand. That puppy is trying to steal them from her hand.
    The next stage is that she puts treats on the floor. Then that puppy doesn't try to steal them anymore.

    My friend has additional questions about it. Note! We are going to use the verb "leave" for lack of a better word. We are now talking about It's Yer choice. Since Lotta is already almost 2 years olds, she is better at "leaving" treats than that puppy. When my friend put treats on her hand Lotta tried only couple times to steal them. When she put treats on the floor, not even once did Lotta try to take them.

    So, the next questions are:
    1) Should my friend start
    by putting the treats a) on her hand or b) on the floor?
    2) In that tutorial the owner feeds the treats from the hand. Is there a reason they should be given by hand and not from the floor?
     
  13. Eleonora

    Eleonora New Member

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    We now have two videos of this:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

     
  14. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Some people feel strongly that giving the treat from the floor isn't as effective in proofing the behavior. I think the idea goes that since the idea is to teach the dog never to take stuff off the floor, if you then give them the treat off the floor it is a mixed message.

    Personally, I don't think it matters that much. I tend to do a little of each, just to keep them from anticipating what I am going to do. I pick the treat up off the floor and give it to them, I don't just let them have at it, but as long as the treat is always coming from me and with my permission I personally find the difference is negligible.

    It probably depends a lot on the dog, though, and what their habits were before you start training. Squash has been playing this game since he was about 11 weeks old, and he's pretty solid with it so I don't worry about the small details.
     
  15. Eleonora

    Eleonora New Member

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    Which behavior are you talking about? Two of our previous messages relate only to It's Yer choice. This is what s/he told/answered:
    We linked two videos of this:
    We are still talking about It's Yer Choice.
     
  16. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    I'm talking about either It's Yer Choice or Leave It, really. I use It's Yer Choice as a foundation for teaching Leave It, myself, so I tend to use them interchangeably. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  17. Eleonora

    Eleonora New Member

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    The reason we have asked about this is that my friend has been suggested impulse control exercises. We had linked a tutorial about It's Yer choice. So, my friend already knows how to teach it. We had told that:
    and that:
    That was mostly testing Lotta. We have tried to ask where my friend should start teaching It's Yer choice. Let's put it this way: where would you start teaching it to a dog that doesn't try to steal treats from you? Would you feed the treats from your hands like in that tutorial or would you let the dog to take them from the floor?
     
  18. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    The videos won't load for me, so I'm guessing a bit on what is going on. I'd make it more of a game, and up the ante a bunch. Get excited, use better treats, toss the treats around from hand to hand a bit. Drop them rather than place them on the floor. Play before meals when she is hungry. Use toys if she prefers that.
     

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