Its worse

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by JennSLK, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    I am now seeking profesional help

    Just earlier, we were all in the living room. Jazz, Emma, Eric and I. The room is huge. Well Emma was sleeping on the floor, across the room from Jazz. Jazz calmly walked up to Emma, and I mean calm and peacfull. I was keeping an eye on her though. Then she just grabs Emma by the head and shakes!! Now she's growling. I yelled at her and she let go. Emma ran away and Jazz got put in her kennel with me still "yelling" in my growly voice.

    I am also going to be purchasing a muzzle for Jazz. She continues to be fine at aglity class and wil people. She just cant stand Emma all of a sudden.

    :(:(
     
  2. Gena

    Gena New Member

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    I wish I had any sort of answer for you :( It is a tough position to be in that is for sure. Several years ago I had a dane that started doing exactly what you are describing. It was right as she hit her 2 year mark as well. Both dogs were spayed young and the dane was a very young puppy when I got her. I tried and tried and tried with them, but ended up having to rehome the dane. She did great in an only dog house, but I *still* feel like I failed her somehow. I won't have two females again because of that (even though I know lots of people do it successfully...I'm just too paranoid).
     
  3. assortedagility

    assortedagility New Member

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    This is Jazz, the CH dobe, correct? I do not know if you had plans to breed her before, but if you did, I hope now you are seriously reconsidering.

    Unfortunately yelling at and shoving her in a crate is only to release your own anger and truly does little to cure the situation. However, until you can seriously begin to improve her issues, she does need to be managed. Crated when not supervised, and when supervised she should be muzzled.

    And if after attempts to cure her and she doesn't improve, you may have to reconsider spaying her and placing her in an only dog pet home.
     
  4. J's crew

    J's crew New Member

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    You would reconsider breeding a dog that's breed sometimes shows DA?? :confused:

    As for the rest..... I hope you get the situation managed. It's awful living with dogs that don't get along. Been there, done that. :(
     
  5. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    I'm so glad to hear that you're willing to get professional help. I hope you will be able to find a good trainer in your area who can help you with this! Good luck, and keep us posted!
     
  6. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    I think there's a difference between a breed that shows DA and a dog that will stalk and attack a sleeping dog without provocation.

    Talk to Doc, see what she says.
     
  7. Sweet72947

    Sweet72947 Squishy face

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    I remember seeing an episode of that vet hospital show on animal planet where these people had a female german shepherd and a female dachshund. The german shepherd attacked the dacshund, sending her to the animal hospital. The people didn't want to get rid of either dog, so they did crate and rotate. Be prepared to need to do that.
     
  8. Have you taken EMMA to the vet? When Ted was sick, toward the end, with his cancer (not saying Emma has something like that) we had a lot of random attacks from Bear who was always buddy buddy with Ted before. But if there's something that's changing Emma's chemistry, how she smells, etc, it might be causing Jazz to react badly. Just another thought.
    <3
     
  9. Squishy22

    Squishy22 Guest

    Exactly what I was thinking...
     
  10. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Talked to Doc. We both agree that it is probabex agression. Common in dobes, although more common in males. She is going to put me in touch with a behaviourist closed to me as she is a few hours away.

    Emma is in the vets regualrly for full blood work as she isnt verry stable with her Adisions.

    As for spaying Jazz that will be a last resort. Same sex agression is common in dobes and I dont feal that is a reason to spay. Although if it comes out that there is something else here then yes it is at the back of my mind. It would be different if it was HA

    I whont re home if they cant get along. I will just have to mannage
     
  11. mrose_s

    mrose_s BusterLove

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    Harry's issues with Mac started aroudn the 2 year mark aswell. They aren't ever allowed together now ut its not like ,y sister or mother could be bothered actually getting professional help so we just rotate between the backyard and the house.
    Harry and Buster arn't 100% back to being friends yet but they seem to sneak closer to one another and like to sleep near each other now.
     
  12. SizzleDog

    SizzleDog Lord Cynical

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    This definitely sucks. But sadly, I'm not surprised.

    Same-sex DA is a breed thing, and though more common in males, it's seen in bitches too. And from what I've seen and heard, bitch-bitch DA is 10x worse than dog-dog.

    Ilsa's auntie Mercedes is extremely same-sex DA. Ilsa is fine around other bitches, as long as they submit to her and dont' spend an extended amount of time in the same house - she was fine with Sunny and Rumor for long amounts of time, but it only took three weeks for her and Besame (Ronin's mom) to try to kill each other. And sadly, after that one incident they could never be trusted around each other again. :(
     
  13. Giny

    Giny Active Member

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    Oh boy, I've heard horrible stories about female to female aggression, I've heard it's a lot worse then male to male aggression. And also I've heard it has nothing to do with the the fact of the females being intact or not so spaying wouldn't help and can often escalate to the death of one dog.

    Sorry that you're going through this, I can't imagine how stressful this is for you. It's always been a fear of mine. Hope that all can be resolved. :(
     
  14. Squishy22

    Squishy22 Guest

    Hmmm, there has to be some kind of trigger as to why she went after emma. Maybe something you missed? Was emma with a toy or had something that Jazz might consider HERS? Something seems missing to me. I just dont understand why a dog would snap for no reason at all, just out of the blue. When push comes to shove in my house, its usually over SOMETHING. Like a toy, a place on the couch, a bone, and over reacting to people at the door that creates fights. Maybe emma was giving silent signals to Jazz like a stare down? Is there a power struggle, or does emma willingly take her lower pecking order status?
     
  15. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I really feel sorry for you !!! I knew a lovely lady who showed Dobes and she loved her 4 dearly . Two males and two females . She had to keep them in 3 areas and would rotate whom could be with whom . Unfortunately a gate broke and she was in the middle of 4 .... results were mega vet bills and her in the hospital . How is Jazz with children ??
     
  16. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Jazz has been abover about a year now. The first few times it was while one of them was on a chair or the bed. Hence the no dogs on furnature rule now.

    Emma was sleeping on the floor across the room from Jazz the last time when she got atacked.

    Emma is verry submisive and doesnt mind letting any dog be above her
     
  17. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Jazz is amazing with Kids. They can do anything to her. There has been no change in her attitude towards adults or kids.
     
  18. dr2little

    dr2little Moderator

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    I suck at multiple post but someone mentioned that Jazz should be spayed or at least not bred. This is not a reason not to breed Jazz.
    Spaying, as someone else mentioned can actually make this worse. There are no studies showing that spaying will improve BA but several pointing to the reduction in estrogen increasing aggression.

    Jenn - Sent you a PM, need more location details.:)
     
  19. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    I have a breed where same sex DA is considered normal. To the point that breeders WILL NOT SELL same sex pups to less than pro homes. Blood and mayhem is somewhat common. I would not NOT breed a bitch due to same sex aggression.

    I would NOT breed a dog that attacks sleeping dogs. PERIOD. I don't care how great they are with kids. This is not normal same sex aggression, this is something weirder and IMO much more serious.

    Think of it this way. Lets say you do breed her and one of her pups goes on to live with a smallish dog. That dog does the same thing out of the blue but kills the other dog. Is that ok with you?
     
  20. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    That is true. BUT I had one case (with one of my own dogs) where same sex aggression was HUGELY reduced by spaying. But it had come down to try a spay or PTS. So don't hesitate to try it as a last resort of things get worse.

    (oh and this dog was always fantastic with all humans even babies...but she never bothered a sleeping dog)
     

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