Is this a good breeder?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Picklepaige, Sep 5, 2011.

  1. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    how so? i didn't see a single pic of cattle being rounded up, a leopard treed or a lion bayed. how then are they true ridgebacks?

    i don't know about true, but here are some pretty good ridgebacks that were bred by & belong to a friend of mine

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    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  2. PitBullLove

    PitBullLove Member

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    A lion being bayed? In the United States? Oh jeez. I have yet to see that. And a ll I see is a Facebook login for your link.
     
  3. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    i'll ask Matt if i can post pics of his stock. they aren't used on lion yet (i am getting ready to spend a year at a govt foreign language school but after i hope to get started building a pack). several ARE very good hog dogs and win in the show ring. that would be Mt Lion in the states.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
  4. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    It is a very common practice that breeders require pet dogs to be spayed/neutered by a certain age - but the statement that gets me in the contract of the breeder the OP posted is that the dog must be altered no matter what the vet says. What if the vet says the dog has a serious heart condition and could die under anesthesia? According to this contract, you STILL must alter your dog or risk having it taken back without any refund. Though, with a serious heart condition you would be entitled to a replacement dog...

    But still. Their contract is not worded in a professional manner, and I wouldn't sign it. I also don't like how their website is set up, with a lack of any information specifically listed regarding their dogs.
     
  5. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I actually read that differently - I see it as "you need to wait until the dog is 14 months old even if the vet is swearing you can spay/neuter earlier". Not "You must spay/neuter even if your vet says the dog can't handle it physically".
     
  6. PitBullLove

    PitBullLove Member

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    I think the circumstances would be different if a heart conditon came up, but you are right, it is not worded in a professional manner. I had read it as, even if the vet says to wait longer (as vets often do have different suggestions regarding when to spay/neuter) you must get the dog fixed in the alotted time period the breeder gave, anyway...
     
  7. PitBullLove

    PitBullLove Member

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    And Pops, perhaps 'REAL' wasn't the perfect word to use when comparing the show dogs here/on that website to working RRs.
     
  8. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    no harm, i just think a dog should be the total package, hard worker, good loving pet & no harm in looking good too. i don't see how a dog can be the true anything if it can't be both hard working & a loving trainable pet. by the same token i don't care for a working dog that can't be a trustworthy pet back at the ranch. i don't care how good a dog hunts or works stock or what ever the job is, if he can't be trusted not to eat the neighbors kid, i don't want him & i don't want him bred from.
    showing ONLY can never produce the true anything because it ignores half of what the dog is.
     
  9. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    There is some harm in looking good...

    The problem with ONLY breeding the total package (and by that I mean champion confo, excellent worker, fully health tested, and great temperament) is that the gene pool will become rapidly so narrow that the breed would fall apart.

    There needs to be some diversity. IMO the best place to have diversity is in phenotype. That doesnt' mean ugly dogs, but that does mean non show ring quality. Look at true working dogs, they don't look like cookie cutter versions of the breed. There is also nothing wrong with breeding pretty dogs, as long as you aren't making your breed so narrow a type that its homozygous at nearly all loci. I have actually had some breeders tell me function follows form, nor form follows function. Function first, then the ideal form will follow. (ie breed for the function to get good form)

    The problem is that certain issues are not actually relavent to working ability or style. The best example I have is a horse one. Line classes (confo) reward horses with long elegant necks. A study of the world's top dressage horses found that length of neck was actually a slight hindrance. What is pleasing to the eye might not actually be an advantage to the animal.

    Crossing dogs who are exemplary in one category and sufficient in others to dogs who are exemplary in others IMO is a sound strategy to produce excellent dogs and preserve diversity.
     
  10. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    you know looking good does NOT include deformities that impair function.
     
  11. Teal

    Teal ...ice road...

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    Tell that to AKC ;)
     
  12. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    just because a lot of people support an idea or action doesn't make it right or smart.
     
  13. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    The breeders of such dogs will claim the dogs do not hunt anymore. Therefore it does not impair their function at all. I find that sad, but that is the logic I have been told. And its not a deformity in most cases. What is correct in one breed is a fault in another.

    Cat feet are preferred in JRTs, hare feet in whippets. I prefer the look of cat feet, but that would be wrong in a whippet... Its not a deformity though. Same with chest size and shape. A dog built for going to earth is structurally a very different animal than one built to run like the wind and catch rabbits. That doesn't make either deformed.
     
  14. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    and yet they both look awesome doing their functional thing.
    how do they justify hyena looking GSDs. the breed is still used extensively of PP, K9 & occassionally for light herding. the hyena backers can deny that it impairs function but the reality of WHERE military & police get their dogs & more importantly WHO they are BARRED from acquiring dogs from says it all. there is exactly ZERO they can say to counter that. anyone w/o a dog in the fight that listens to the debate will (almost w/o exception) come down on the side of the working breeders. i understand what you're saying yeah, if you breed for the purpose of winning rosettes then yeah, you'll screw up the dogs, but breeding for a well balanced working dog will always produce a physically attractive dog (maybe not the markings but the structure).
    ETA with almost any breed of hunting dog of any type you can almost always find someone somewhere in the world that is still hunting that breed. equally important is if you understand the breeds background well you can usually also show how a functional version could be put right to work. for example the otter hound, if it were still a good hunting breed, could be put right to work hunting otter, mink, nutria, muskrat and even deer, bear, boar & cat in the large swampy & boggy areas.
     
  15. PitBullLove

    PitBullLove Member

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    Seriously.
     
  16. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I think they look like a good breeder! :) And, YES, I feel that generally it's a good idea for a breeder to require that their puppies are altered. The average person not only doesn't want to deal with an intact dog (messy heats, hormones, frustration, the desire to breed, roaming, etc) but also does not need to breeding their dog intentionally or accidentally. I have soooo much respect for them because they don't require pups to be altered by 6 months. At least they want people to wait until the dog is fully grown! Props for that.

    The breeder that I plan on buying a puppy from also requires puppies to be altered (before 2 years of age). However, they obviously make an exception for me, some one they KNOW is going to show/work the puppy, keep them from ever having an accidental litter, train them properly regardless of their hormones, and never breed them unless they are the absolute best example of their breed. General rules like that for average dog owners are usually not black and white. When you build a relationship with your breeder, and let them know how much of a wonderful, loving, caring, educated dog owner you are... they aren't going to force you to alter a dog, or seize them from you for putting them on a tie-out while camping, or whatever.

    And as far as the vitamins. Oh well? They do not say "YOU MUST GIVE YOUR PUPPY THESE VITAMINS!" they say it's a good idea. My breeder says it's a good idea to feed your puppy raw, but they don't force buyers to do so.

    I think it's difficult to completely judge a breeder by their website. Of course, preciousteacupmaltipoos.com is not a good breeder and it's obvious :p but I would meet the breeder and the dogs, meet the puppies they have produced and their owners, and talk to the breeder and get to know them and let them know who you are.
     
  17. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    "Our dogs have their OFA's for hips and elbows before we breed them. We also test for Degenerative Myelopathy, while it's not prevalent in Ridgebacks we don't want to leave anything to chance when it comes to our precious puppies."

    I have actually considered getting a Ridgeback... such a special breed of dog. But I don't know if I'd really demand that the parents are actively hunting lions. I would look for a very correct temperament and good conformation. I meet way too many skittish, unpredictable, bite-risk RRs and that would be my biggest concern. These dogs look confident, athletic, well socialized and are obviously being shown.

    The OP should definitely inquire about show titles and working experience. But, just because the website doesn't list every dog's info and titles and work experience does not mean they don't have it! Some people just aren't as skilled at building a website.
     

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