Is raw for real?
- Thread starter Gempress
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I only supplement with fish body oil, vitamin C and vitamin E. Some people choose to supplement a ton, but I think the dogs get whatever they need from the meat, organs, bones and occasional veggie matter. Dogs do not need complete nutritional balance with every meal like Science Diet would like to tell you.
And Herschel, of course not. That's why people tend to feed bones *with* the meat.
And Herschel, of course not. That's why people tend to feed bones *with* the meat.
W
well the "natural" stools you get feeding kibble are mostly entirely made up of filler. But yes when my dogs get too much meat too often it gets a little loose. Big deal. I usually feed the meat and bones in the appropriate amounts that their stools are just fine. But that isn't even close to the point I was trying to make, but take it however you want.
Canidae All Life Stages:
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement
Let me guess, you're going to say that "brown rice" and "white rice" are fillers?
By definition, neither of them contain husks. They are also a valuable source of carbohydrates--and the jury is still out on whether or not our dogs need primary carbohydrates for energy.
Brown rice:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c21U2.html
White rice:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c21Vm.html
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement
Let me guess, you're going to say that "brown rice" and "white rice" are fillers?
By definition, neither of them contain husks. They are also a valuable source of carbohydrates--and the jury is still out on whether or not our dogs need primary carbohydrates for energy.
Brown rice:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c21U2.html
White rice:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c21Vm.html
Canidae is a great food. My dogs are on that now. We're still switching to raw because I am convinced it is even better. I trust my handler, she's paid to have dogs in top condition, so she takes it very very seriously. She's been handling and breeding for over 30 years, feeding raw for about 15.
I'm a proponent of 'feed whatever your dog does best on' method. For me, it looks like it's going to be raw.
I'm a proponent of 'feed whatever your dog does best on' method. For me, it looks like it's going to be raw.
W
well hersch since you have everything figured out, why exactly are you here asking questions? (seriously) just to be a smart ass? and you're right I am going to say rice is a filler a rather cheap one too, with hardly any benefit to our animals. Believe what you want. If you want to believe that most of the rice that "isn't a filler" is used by your dogs, great, I continue to believe that most of it gets deposited directly onto your's or someon else's lawn.
While I am not allowed to feed raw while I live at home...
If anyone was really worried about carbs wouldn't it be easy enough to add in some rice meant for humans? I tend to fall on the side that says its not that necessary, pending actual experience, but if that was the only thing between me and and raw, I might start cooking rice from a better supply line.
As for the Canidae, its pretty good as far as food goes. I think Alfalfa mean could be a filler, after all its grass. Then again, Buster keeps eating grass in the yard, and seems to digest it...
I'm not an experienced supermarket person, does anyone have a list real world terms for meat? Can I actually walk into a store and ask for chicken backs and oxtail? Chicken quarters seems simple enough though...
If anyone was really worried about carbs wouldn't it be easy enough to add in some rice meant for humans? I tend to fall on the side that says its not that necessary, pending actual experience, but if that was the only thing between me and and raw, I might start cooking rice from a better supply line.
As for the Canidae, its pretty good as far as food goes. I think Alfalfa mean could be a filler, after all its grass. Then again, Buster keeps eating grass in the yard, and seems to digest it...
I'm not an experienced supermarket person, does anyone have a list real world terms for meat? Can I actually walk into a store and ask for chicken backs and oxtail? Chicken quarters seems simple enough though...
There are people who actually want to learn on this thread so instead of slinging snotty comments at each other why don't you guys try and put your differences aside and share what your thoughts on the issue.
This is a big concern for a lot of dog owners and they want to find out the best for their pups.
Knock it off.
This is a big concern for a lot of dog owners and they want to find out the best for their pups.
Knock it off.
Gee. Forgive my transgression for questioning the Almighty Raw. :hail: 
I shall not make the mistake of doing so again.
I shall not make the mistake of doing so again.
! I feel the same way you do Gempress! I have found no proof that a raw fed dog will live far more longer than a premium fed kibble dog. And may I just add that years ago my GSD's ate Purina dog chow and lived till 15 and 16..............FYI I have been considering Natures variety already made raw foods but I keep questioning it in my mind, something just rubs me the wrong way feeding raw and always has. I admit I tried it for a few months when Caiza was around 7 months and his poop was always a mess eating it. Funny that when someone disagrees with raw food that they get attacked by the raw food feeders or Nazi's as RD put it J/K LOL! I think it is great that people feel that raw meat is "species" appropriate for their dogs guess thats why you do as an individual what you feel is best for your dog .Just to comment on one thing . . . Dogs can live on practically anything. Many years ago, shepherds used to feed their border collies something similar to corn flakes with cream poured on top of it. Those dogs could easily have run a hundred miles a day bringing in the sheep, and that was what fueled them. Wild dogs eat whatever they can get - I know a lot of people say that wild canines never eat the stomach contents of their prey and this may be true for large prey, but I've never seen a coyote that would catch a rabbit and discard the stomach. I've seen coyotes ransack a barn and eat sweet feed and berries - we thought it was raccoons until we set up video surveillance in the barn. Our ranch dogs used to dig up carrots out of the garden and eat them. If it's a significant source of calories, dogs will eat it. They're obviously opportunistic and will choose meat over berries and grain when given the choice (which says something about their ideal diet imo) but I think it's silly to argue about how kibble is going to kill our dogs when they have proven that they can and do survive on just about anything.
Our ranch dogs ate purina food and whatever they would catch/scavenge, and they lived to a pretty good age - my chow/lab mix was 15 or older when she passed away (only knew her minimum possible age, she could've been much older) and our Lab/Greyhound mutt was 14. Would they have lived longer on a better diet? Who knows. I am not concerned with longetivity so much as quality of life. I'd rather a dog have 10 good years and drop dead while running like a young dog, than have 10 good years and then 6-7 years of pain and health problems.
Many years ago, shepherds used to feed their border collies something similar to corn flakes with cream poured on top of it. Those dogs could easily have run a hundred miles a day bringing in the sheep, and that was what fueled them. Wild dogs eat whatever they can get - I know a lot of people say that wild canines never eat the stomach contents of their prey and this may be true for large prey, but I've never seen a coyote that would catch a rabbit and discard the stomach. I've seen coyotes ransack a barn and eat sweet feed and berries - we thought it was raccoons until we set up video surveillance in the barn. Our ranch dogs used to dig up carrots out of the garden and eat them. If it's a significant source of calories, dogs will eat it. They're obviously opportunistic and will choose meat over berries and grain when given the choice (which says something about their ideal diet imo) but I think it's silly to argue about how kibble is going to kill our dogs when they have proven that they can and do survive on just about anything. Our ranch dogs ate purina food and whatever they would catch/scavenge, and they lived to a pretty good age - my chow/lab mix was 15 or older when she passed away (only knew her minimum possible age, she could've been much older) and our Lab/Greyhound mutt was 14. Would they have lived longer on a better diet? Who knows. I am not concerned with longetivity so much as quality of life. I'd rather a dog have 10 good years and drop dead while running like a young dog, than have 10 good years and then 6-7 years of pain and health problems.
W
Rice isn't easily digestible, all I have to do is boil some rice and mix it with burger to see the increase in stool size and "rice" itself in the poop over when I don't have rice in there. The only time they get rice is if we have left over and that way it gets put on the lawn as fertilizer instead of down our garbage disposal. The only reason you don't see "rice" from kibble is its processed beyond recognition what you get is just bigger stools from a food source not so bioavailable to dogs. Cat food is even worse, its almost all filler
as for meat sources. ask for kidneys, beef and pork hearts, liver (chicken, pork, beef), gizzards, chicken backs, chicken necks, pork necks, ox tails, chicken quarters, ground meat of any kind, buffalo, beef, turkey, etc. You can feed fish of all sorts, raw or canned, raw being preferred of course. you can look for other stuff, rabbit duck, etc when it goes on sale or close to expiration, otherwise it gets pricey with those meats. I give organic yogurt, cottage cheese, supplement with fish oil, some vit E on occasion, rarely some veggies. Those are the basics for me
and that brings me to how many veggies do dogs need? debateable, but all i have to do is add some veggie mash that's been blended to their bowls and I can see most of it undigested in the crap the next day. I don't think its terribly important myself.
as for meat sources. ask for kidneys, beef and pork hearts, liver (chicken, pork, beef), gizzards, chicken backs, chicken necks, pork necks, ox tails, chicken quarters, ground meat of any kind, buffalo, beef, turkey, etc. You can feed fish of all sorts, raw or canned, raw being preferred of course. you can look for other stuff, rabbit duck, etc when it goes on sale or close to expiration, otherwise it gets pricey with those meats. I give organic yogurt, cottage cheese, supplement with fish oil, some vit E on occasion, rarely some veggies. Those are the basics for me
and that brings me to how many veggies do dogs need? debateable, but all i have to do is add some veggie mash that's been blended to their bowls and I can see most of it undigested in the crap the next day. I don't think its terribly important myself.
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Of course not, Laur. Hope you didn't think I was implying that! :yikes:
I just think it's ridiculous for people to bicker about raw vs. kibble. Since people don't allow their dogs to scavenge, it's just a matter of doing what works best for them. Some dogs don't do well on raw, and some dogs don't do well on any kibble.
If it can be done I think raw is best, just because I think a diet of whole, fresh foods is better than processed, dried/canned food, but it doesn't mean the processed food is unhealthy. I just see extra benefits in feeding a diet in which I know exactly what my dog is eating. Well, almost... I don't want to know what she snarfs up while she's working sheep, but every time she's in that roundpen she grabs a mouthful of something that looks... brown. And not for eating. *shudder*
I just think it's ridiculous for people to bicker about raw vs. kibble. Since people don't allow their dogs to scavenge, it's just a matter of doing what works best for them. Some dogs don't do well on raw, and some dogs don't do well on any kibble.
If it can be done I think raw is best, just because I think a diet of whole, fresh foods is better than processed, dried/canned food, but it doesn't mean the processed food is unhealthy. I just see extra benefits in feeding a diet in which I know exactly what my dog is eating. Well, almost... I don't want to know what she snarfs up while she's working sheep, but every time she's in that roundpen she grabs a mouthful of something that looks... brown. And not for eating. *shudder*