Is it considered responsible breeding if...
- Thread starter Citrus007
- Start date
If there is a spay/neuter contract on all pups, and the breeder is willing to take back the pup at any time during its life, I don't think it's irresponsible.
However, I don't really see the point of such an undertaking. Pet quality pups are produced by responsible breeders on a regular basis, and are sold for a low price. Why would a person get a pup from pet quality parents, when the same sum would get them a pup from show quality parents?
However, I don't really see the point of such an undertaking. Pet quality pups are produced by responsible breeders on a regular basis, and are sold for a low price. Why would a person get a pup from pet quality parents, when the same sum would get them a pup from show quality parents?
T
In cockers, you will come across the occasional reputable pet cocker breeder. And this is where I find it hard to just see it as black and white. I know of a breeder that gets their dogs from show homes, health tests, raises the puppies VERY well, etc etc. They do everything a responsible breeder does, except show their dogs. And yes, their puppies are sold on S/N contracts and limited registration.
But, my general opinion is no. You shouldn't. But, altough I might believe breeding for pets isn't the best idea, I can't condemn those that do it responsibly.
But, my general opinion is no. You shouldn't. But, altough I might believe breeding for pets isn't the best idea, I can't condemn those that do it responsibly.
W
My definitions are different, but if someone did everything in the way of testing, contracts, support after the sale, etc, I wouldn't call them irresponsible so to speak, but unethical. There's far to many perfect pets created on accident and are easy to find to purposely breed pets. There are worse things they could be I guess, but its very rare to find someone that would go thru all that trouble to breed pets, its a very hypothetical question and not something you really find in the real world.
Having bred show quality tested Retrievers to mostly people who wanted them as their family dog , I feel I did no wrong. My mentor ( shower , judge and breeder ) and I were the only breeders in town for about 20 years. Theym only bred 2 of their dogs, I only one....litters ever 2 to 3 years. I bred for 35 to 40 years and always had a waiting list....I had many families who had gotten pups from 3 or 4 litters ....10 years apart. Whip me if you want to...... I've had my dogs go to Florida, Colorado, Ill , Ohio, New York and Md. So yes... I bred pet quality dogs.
there are a kajillion pet quality dogs in shelters all over the country? why breed if your goal is dogs no different than those?
i just don't understand the point of breeding for mediocrity. the majority of pups produced from a well-matched breeding of excellent parents is going to only be pet-quality. they're breeding to produce the best offspring possible. if breeders lower what they're aiming for, what are we going to be ending up with? certainly nothing better than what's already being over-produced.
i just don't understand the point of breeding for mediocrity. the majority of pups produced from a well-matched breeding of excellent parents is going to only be pet-quality. they're breeding to produce the best offspring possible. if breeders lower what they're aiming for, what are we going to be ending up with? certainly nothing better than what's already being over-produced.
I don't agree with dogs being bred soley for the purpose of pets, but rather agree with dogs being bred to better the breed (so the breeder must keep the health, conformation and skills/temperament the breed was bred for in mind). A good breeder would be involved in some sort of activity with their dogs (whether that be in the breed ring, obediance ring, earthdogging, tracking....)
With all the BYBs, mills, and even good, ethical breeders in this world... WHY would someone want to breed dogs SOLEY for the purpose of pets? If someone absolutely wanted to have a litter, to see the miracle of birth, etc, I'm sure a shelter or rescue would absolutely love to have a foster home that would help with a pregnant bitch, bottle feeding babies, or taking on a litter of puppies w/ mom.
What do you mean? I rather see a puppy go to a home that will show them in the breed ring AND work them (ie: earthdog). imo, a good dog has a title at both end of it's name. But because not all puppies have show potential (very few ime), I know plenty of dogs who go to pet homes that "work" the dogs... mine will be involved in agility when he gets older.
With all the BYBs, mills, and even good, ethical breeders in this world... WHY would someone want to breed dogs SOLEY for the purpose of pets? If someone absolutely wanted to have a litter, to see the miracle of birth, etc, I'm sure a shelter or rescue would absolutely love to have a foster home that would help with a pregnant bitch, bottle feeding babies, or taking on a litter of puppies w/ mom.
What do you mean? I rather see a puppy go to a home that will show them in the breed ring AND work them (ie: earthdog). imo, a good dog has a title at both end of it's name. But because not all puppies have show potential (very few ime), I know plenty of dogs who go to pet homes that "work" the dogs... mine will be involved in agility when he gets older.
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I have to agree with everyone else. I don't know if anyone else has had this experience, but I've volunteered in shelters before. The majority of dogs are pure bred dogs- mostly labs, to be honest.
It is so heart breaking- you can just look at the dogs and know they're wondering where their familes are, and why they're alone...They have no idea that they're going to die alone.
To think about it, ALL of those dogs were wanted at some time by some person- maybe they were the cutest puppy at the time.
The sheer volume of pets that spend their last hours in a kill shelter are astounding.
Now, bearing that in mind, unless you have a darn good reason to be breeding- such as you know your dogs are the top of the game, then there's no way you should be doing it.
And, the ONLY way you know your dogs are the best is if you COMPARE THEM TO OTHER DOGS- the whole purpose of a dog show is to test breedworthiness.
This is just my opinion, and I know its a strong one. There are other reasons not to breed, like expensive it is (when done right) and the risk of putting your bitch in jeapordy.
When/If my pup is ever bred, I will not put her life on the line unless she proves to be an excellent example of her breed. Otherwise, she will be spayed, which is also fine with me. She's a great dog (I am a biased mom).
It is so heart breaking- you can just look at the dogs and know they're wondering where their familes are, and why they're alone...They have no idea that they're going to die alone.
To think about it, ALL of those dogs were wanted at some time by some person- maybe they were the cutest puppy at the time.
The sheer volume of pets that spend their last hours in a kill shelter are astounding.
Now, bearing that in mind, unless you have a darn good reason to be breeding- such as you know your dogs are the top of the game, then there's no way you should be doing it.
And, the ONLY way you know your dogs are the best is if you COMPARE THEM TO OTHER DOGS- the whole purpose of a dog show is to test breedworthiness.
This is just my opinion, and I know its a strong one. There are other reasons not to breed, like expensive it is (when done right) and the risk of putting your bitch in jeapordy.
When/If my pup is ever bred, I will not put her life on the line unless she proves to be an excellent example of her breed. Otherwise, she will be spayed, which is also fine with me. She's a great dog (I am a biased mom).
Pet quality pups are in every litter. But, what happens when you breed two pet quality dogs? What will be the "low end" of quality in a litter bred from two "low end" individuals? It has the potential to just progressively get worse, until the dogs are suited to do nothing BUT be pets. It doesn't contribute anything to the breed.
I feel that working and conformation standards hold breeds together. They give breeders a goal in breeding instead of just lazily pumping out pets. Because, really, people will love their pets no matter how poorly they fit the standards set for the breed. So why try to breed the best?
There are enough pet puppies in shelters out there, purebreds too. No need to breed for more of them, IMO.
I feel that working and conformation standards hold breeds together. They give breeders a goal in breeding instead of just lazily pumping out pets. Because, really, people will love their pets no matter how poorly they fit the standards set for the breed. So why try to breed the best?
There are enough pet puppies in shelters out there, purebreds too. No need to breed for more of them, IMO.
Thats a good point RD, but anyone with papers can show. Someone was talking a few weeks ago about a Sheltie who was a very poor example of the breed that kept getting entered and entered and would win because she was the only one there, and was getting championship points. Is that right? No, but technically, that person was doing conformation with their dog. So showing or competing doesn't prove much either.
*Nod* I agree, Dan, it doesn't prove everything. But, I would be willing to bet that the dog with poor structure will never finish its championship. In order to finish, a dog needs two majors, which means it will need to beat a certain number of dogs. There is a very slim chance that a poorly built dog can win its majors against at least 15+ (I don't know what Sheltie competition is like but I know it's a competitive breed. 15 is probably not even enough dogs for a major) other Shelties. The odds are that there will be a nicer quality dog in the ring that the judge will like better.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's highly unlikely that a dog so blatantly incorrect would finish its championship.
And btw, a dog cannot win points for being the only one there. A certain number of dogs have to be beaten in order to earn even one point.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's highly unlikely that a dog so blatantly incorrect would finish its championship.
And btw, a dog cannot win points for being the only one there. A certain number of dogs have to be beaten in order to earn even one point.
Why do your think I stopped breeding ??? Things changed over my years of doing it. It was my line and I and others wanted more pups. When my last female died and I couldn't find another that fit my breeding , I quit. By then the rescues and HS were overloaded with BY Golden breeders, I'm proud of every pup I ever whelped . Some were shown , some were just 4H .... most were just wonderful household companion dogs. Anyone who has any Golden Retriever books with pictures of top breeding will find lines that have been in my pedigrees. My oldest is 1945 . I'm sure most of you Golden owners wouldn't even know these lines. Mine go back 50 years .... I'm only aware of our local Championships and lines now. Again, I welcome any scrutinizing . I just don't want to be labeled as a BYB because I whelped " pet quality " dogs.
Grammy I don't think you were a BYB at all! As you stated, things have changed over the years. When you were breeding, I don't think there were major issues with overpopulation in your breed. I think it was very responsible of you to stop breeding when you realized that.
In no way was I implying that I think you were a BYB.
In no way was I implying that I think you were a BYB.
DanL.. I"m not sure how that SHeltie achieved points if it had no competition.
There would have to have been at least one other Sheltie in the class to even obtain a point for a CH title.
only Best Male/Best Female/Best of Winners/Best of Oposites and Best of Breed can achieve points WHEN another dog is in the ring against them.
At least thats how it works here in the CKC - not sure where you are from.
But I can see your point in it for sure!!
There would have to have been at least one other Sheltie in the class to even obtain a point for a CH title.
only Best Male/Best Female/Best of Winners/Best of Oposites and Best of Breed can achieve points WHEN another dog is in the ring against them.
At least thats how it works here in the CKC - not sure where you are from.
But I can see your point in it for sure!!
Probably to make money, seeing as they aren't losing the money most of us are by trialing and showing our dogs to prove their breeding worth. So it's easier for them to make a profit by breeding unproven pets, even if they are health tested.
I do not feel a breeder is responsible if breeding unproven pets just to produce more. I don't care if they do health testing, have great contracts, etc. There are plenty of pet quality dogs available at shelters, through purebred rescue, and from responsible, ethical breeders who compete with and prove their dogs.
I do not feel a breeder is responsible if breeding unproven pets just to produce more. I don't care if they do health testing, have great contracts, etc. There are plenty of pet quality dogs available at shelters, through purebred rescue, and from responsible, ethical breeders who compete with and prove their dogs.