is elbow & hip dysplasia inherited?

Discussion in 'Dog Health Care' started by Debi, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    Cato, go pick a stupid fight somewhere else. This is not the time nor the thread for it.

    Debi, I am so sorry the breeder was such a jerk to you and I'm doubly sorry that Hammie is having problems at such a young age. :(
     
  2. Debi

    Debi Moderator

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    yes...I DO want precise xrays. this is more than me feeling there might be a problem. I know there is. by day 2 on the Deramaxx...I knew he wasn't going to 'feel better'. it has helped his pain, but he isn't going to get better. altho...for the grace of love..he seems to be feeling no intense pain right now. (that would be him not screaming or rolling around in pain..or whining. if THAT doesn't just break your heart, I don't know what does) I'd LOVE to know your supplements. when you have time, I'd REALLY appreciate a PM of what you give your girl. :) and...for a millionth (uh..is that even a word..lol) time...lol........THANKS.
     
  3. It might be better to just put it here, Debi, in case others are interested.

    Ask your vet about a pain reliever called TRAMADOL. Many dogs get excellent relief from it, and it does not carry the risks of serious liver damage or death that Deramaxx does. It is inexpensive. I have not noticed any side effects from this drug either.

    Supplements I use include Ester C (1500 mgs per day, you want to work up to this doseage gradually starting with 500 or so), Natural Vitamin E (400IU per day), and PhytoFlex CCM+ from Nature's Farmacy. I also use a good overall vitamin supplement from NF called DogZyme's Ultimate, mainly because I feed a raw diet.

    You can find Nature's Farmacy at http://www.naturesfarmacy.com Call them up, they are very nice to speak to on the phone and very helpful.

    I believe that the raw grain free diet has also contributed to helping my ED+ girl feel more sound.
     
  4. SummerRiot

    SummerRiot Dog Show Addict

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    As far as sedation goes - its best to get a sedation but anesthesia isn't necesary in most cases.

    At work we just give them a general sedation which just makes them dopey - yet fully concious. That way they aren't moving around, or get too nervous during an Xray.

    When Riot got his OFA hips and elbows done, he was sedated. It wore off fairly quickly with him. I would have prefered to get them done without anything but he wouldn't hold still enough for that. Plus with the OFA Xrays they have to pull and twist their legs in a certain position to get them perfect. We had to re-do his Elbow Xrays because it wasn't good enough to be sent into the OFA (his leg was slightly off the film).

    If you decide to go through the OFA route - ask for a LIGHT sedation - nothing that requires them to be completely out.

    Edited: Just to add in to Reds post above - we have a few dogs on Tramadol at work and they are doing better on that then they were on Deramaxx. I'd never want Riot on Deramaxx permanently - it really does go straight through their liver.
     
  5. Debi

    Debi Moderator

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    great. Deramaxx is probably hurting his liver. and my vet is putting him completely under. not a 'general sedation'. at this point.......I just don't know what to think. so...whatever. with any situation, I suppose it all goes according to what your vet thinks...or does. I'm sorry I asked. not to mean I am trying to offend anyone..........just sorry I asked. like......sorry this even is a consideration...like...life sucks. as to the subject of elbow dysplasia...........forget it. feel good that your breeder did hip studies...and just go with the flow of life. as for OFA...I could care less. send all these results to them.. yeah, big deal. it is a guideline, but that is ALL it is.
     
  6. One thing to consider, Debi, is IF your dog is affected, when you sent the results to OFA, this is recorded in their data base FOREVER. People planning breedings, etc, in the future will be able to access these records. This is important to breeders. As awful as it is that your guy has issues, one thing that can come of it that is positive is that you can provide this information so that it is available to future breeders.

    However your vet has decided to proceed with the radiographic exam of your dog is probably what is best for your dog right now. One reason why people are suggesting to send the info to OFA is so that it can be accessed in the future. You also get the films evaluated by three different radiologist/orthopedic specialists.

    The other reason we are telling you about OFA is because films have to be taken and identifed in a specific manner in order to be submitted to OFA.

    Wishing you all success, and hoping you get a better report than you are expecting.
     
  7. BRTLover

    BRTLover Guest

    ED and HD is not always inherited; it can be environmental.

    There are several things owners can do to minimize the chances of a dog having HD or ED.

    Not feeding puppy food {but rather an all lifestages food} so the growth rate is not too fast

    Exercise; impact jumping, running should be limited until puppy is at the bare minimum a year old.

    The last time I research this topic
    60% environmental
    40% inherited

    I will try to find the vet link where I found this information for you.

    For xrays: the least amount of sedation as possible. The OFA website has this information on it and they like to see muscle elasticity still!
     
  8. shadowfacedanes

    shadowfacedanes *Biter*

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    I really second this. It will help also potential buyers who want to research the lineage and find out if issues exist in those lines.

    Sorry your pup is having problems. :(
     
  9. Debi

    Debi Moderator

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    did you not read where I specifically said I did NOT feed incorrectly? as to exercise...again, I didn't do what is implied. xrays......helloooooo..........my vet is in charge of the sedation, and I am at his mercy on this. so....when you post information, post something new.
     
  10. SummerRiot

    SummerRiot Dog Show Addict

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    If your really worried about his liver values you can always run a Wellness Plus blood panel on him.

    I ran that on Riot before I got his OFA stuff done and it shows all of the internal organ values and how they are doing. Riots ALT levels were slighty low (not meaning anything.. usually they are high if there was a problem -part of the liver values).

    How long has Hammie been on Deramaxx for?
     

  11. I challenge you to find me ANY EVIDENCE that shows that Canine Hip and Elbow Dysplasia can EVER OCCUR without a genetic predisposition.

    Canine Hip and Elbow Dysplasia is ABSOLUTELY inherited genetically.
     
  12. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I may have to agree ....I've only had 2 offsprings with HD..... ( of many years of breeding ) ..... I never bred to anyone with " Fair " and always checked at least 2 generations of OFA........it may not show up for years , and when I started my line there was no OFA .
     
  13. shadowfacedanes

    shadowfacedanes *Biter*

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    Debi, I think this was general information, not specifically aimed at YOU per se...just at the topic of the thread. The poster is new here. I don't think there was any malice intended.
     
  14. Saintgirl

    Saintgirl New Member

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    HD and Ed are a genetic issue, BUT environmental factors can exasperate the underlying problem, or so my own research on the disease has lead me to believe.

    http://www.offa.org/hipgeninfo.html

    Often a dog will be asymptomatic thus leading the owner to believe that no dysplasia occurs, when in fact it has been there all along. Extra weight and strain due to activity on the joint can cause an increase on the degeneration of the already abnormal joint leading to symptomatic dysplasia. Diet that does not promote a slow steady growth does not cause dysplasia, it does not cause abnormal joint growth, however it can increase strain on a join that is already compromised. The same with excessive exercise, it does not deform a joint, it only adds more strain that can cause symptomatic dysplasia in an asymptomatic dog.

    My boy has ED. He was symptomatic at a year of age due to an injury he sustained. This is when we discovered his dysplasia, and immediatley we started thinking of the worse case scenerios. My immediate concern was for the quality of life that he was going to have. He is now 4 and a half and is asymptomatic. We feed him a good solid diet, keep his weight in check, and keep him physically in shape. His dysplasia is not severe, so it is easy for us to maintain a healthy and painfree lifestyle for him. Surgery was able to be avoided for us. When he is older I am sure that we will have new obstacles to deal with as the arthritis becomes more of an issue. If he hadn't have hurt himself when he was younger we still may have been unaware of the problem. We do use a supplement that we feel works well in his lifestyle, even though there is no hard evidence that they work, we feel good about using it. So Debi, even if your dog is diagnosed with dysplasia there are lots of options and many ways for your pup to live a life that does not have to compromise his quality of life.
     
  15. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I will say that in one case the owner in my mind went to adult food too early . The other case the dog was stressed early on with too aggressive Frisbee play . I have always tried to preach that let pups go at the limits natural to them until they have their bone growth . Let's face it ... they want to please us !!!
     
  16. fillyone

    fillyone But please, call me Barb

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    It is my understanding that HD and ED point more to the structure of the joints and then the resulting Degenerative Joint Disease.

    I'm not sure I've seen an x-ray of severe DJD that didn't also include some malformation of the joint.

    That all said, Dante is Grade I DJD in one elbow but completly symptom free at almost 4 years old. I have not changed anything about what he does in the 2 years since I got his OFA results.

    My next pup will have prelims done for both hips and elbows, probably around a year old.
     
  17. Saintgirl

    Saintgirl New Member

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    I do not beleive that feeding adult food too quickly can cause HD. In fact most Saint people I know do not ever feed puppy food to their dogs, always a high quality dog food. In fact, most puppy foods (unless specially formulated) can encourage faster growth in large and giant breed dogs only adding to the strain on an already unsound joint causing symptoms of the problem. I know many members of Chaz do not feed puppy food to their growing pups either. Grammy, I beleive in your case the HD or ED was already an existing condition, however excessive exercise and perhaps diet exasperated the problem.
     
  18. BRTLover

    BRTLover Guest

    Sorry will never again take my time to respond to any of your posts since your response is so rude!
    There were some posts stating that HD and ED is only genetic and that is not true and therefore I gave the knowledge I had.

    Sorry again!
     
  19. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Focusing as I am on genetics and school..and dogs being one of my favorite topics. All the research I have read and deleved into says that ABSOLUTELY these things are genetically linked. Now that there is more info on the genes involved in heriditary issues, more will be learned. But to date all the research points to there always being a genetic link with HD or ED

    BRT lover..if you have some info on the contrary I would be really interested to see it, I love research and learning :D Also don't be offended if people say stuff that seems rude on the board. Sometimes people are in a hurry and don't realize how the posts sounds. That is the issue with these sorts of things, there is no tone of voice to help us understand how things were meant. I know I have done that myself.
     
  20. SaintGirl, exactly. Environmental factors can cause HD or ED to be expressed. However, it cannot be clinically expressed if there was not an underlying genetic predisposition.

    Part of the problem with the apparent inability to eradicate or strongly minimize CHD in dogs has to do with 2 things:

    1) dogs who present as radiographically normal who are not genetically normal, and will produce dysplastic offspring, and

    2) the failure to consistently have all puppies in litters screened and results released whether normal or abnormal.

    I, along with others I greatly respect, feel that BREADTH in a pedigree (siblings of breeding parters, siblings of parents, and siblings of grand parents) are MOST important in managing to select dogs for breeding who are most likely to have/produce normal hips (and elbows). Generations straight back of normal dogs is also important, but it is the breadth of the normal dogs in the pedigree that carries the most weight.

    This is one reason why the OFA's website is such a useful and wonderful tool for today's breeders. It is also a reason why breeders should try their very best to get ALL puppies in a litter screened, and have the courage and love for their breed to release ALL the results.

    JMO as always.
     

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